Application Compatibility Database

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Elledan
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Application Compatibility Database

Post by Elledan »

I'm aware of http://frik85.reactos.at/ as well as the pages in the Wiki, but what most bothers me about this is the fact that

a) there should be just one source of application compatibility status,
b) the reports often include very little information about the program itself and/or the actual problem(s) with it,
c) whenever there's a new version of ROS released, only a small fraction of existing tested applications are updated with new compatibility reports.

Considering this rather pitiful state of the compatibility database(s), I, as well as others, would like to know

- whether there are plans to rectify this problem in the near future,
- if there are no plans, how people would feel about putting some kind of 'compatibility'-team together, who'd have to provide reports on new applications and update existing reports when a new version of ROS has been released,
- whether this compatibility database will be accessible from the main ROS site.

Thank you for your attention :)

terrance
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Post by terrance »

Frik's application database will be included in the main site. He is in military and sick at the moment so he can't work at this.

Greetings
Michael

Elledan
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Post by Elledan »

terrance wrote:Frik's application database will be included in the main site. He is in military and sick at the moment so he can't work at this.

Greetings
Michael
I see. Can you give us a date when this application database migration will probably be finished?

Best wishes to Frik, by the way :)

GvG
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Post by GvG »

The only one who can give you an accurate estimate on that is frik85, but like terrance said, he is unavailable at the moment. Personally, I don't expect it to be finished before the end of the year.

Elledan
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Post by Elledan »

GvG wrote:The only one who can give you an accurate estimate on that is frik85, but like terrance said, he is unavailable at the moment. Personally, I don't expect it to be finished before the end of the year.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have this task assigned to someone else for the time being, then?

Alkali
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Its better to wait

Post by Alkali »

I know your comment was meant to be constructive, but it can just as easily be taken as rude. Frik85 created the new website to help the project, he was not paid for this task. Further, if you noticed on his fansite the page was orginized and created long before it became official.

Basicly Frik85 is the go to guy as far as the website is conserned. To say that another person should take this job makes little sence. The information is to be taken from Frik's webpage and placed in a webpage which Frik created. Another person would not have would not be able to complete this task nearly as effectively as Frik.

Finally, because this is a hobby project for so many people and not a "job", it would be rude to try to subvert Frik's athority in this situation unless Frik either asked for this to happen, or quit as a developer (neither of which has happened to my knowlege). This would be the equivalent of having someone else "finish for you" the classic porshe you were restorating in your garage.

I can usderstand you wanting to apply a buisness type development model to this project but OSS projects simply don't work that way.

(Thank you for reading this long post)

Elledan
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Re: Its better to wait

Post by Elledan »

Alkali wrote:I know your comment was meant to be constructive, but it can just as easily be taken as rude. [..]

I can usderstand you wanting to apply a buisness type development model to this project but OSS projects simply don't work that way.
It was not my intention to appear rude.

I do find your statement regarding how OSS projects are supposed to work quite naive, though. You really think that large scale projects like Linux are organized in a manner anywhere resembling how the ROS project is currently organized?

Point is, here we've got a promising project which many of us wish to make into a success. For that to happen, things have to be organized, scheduled and executed. Yes, it's very much business-like, but do you know why most businesses function so well?

A compatibility database would be an asset to the project because it would be an indication of how far the project has matured. To the average user accounts of the latest battles fought inside the APIs of ROS are completely unintelligible, but the latest compatibility reports on a number of applications they're familiar with does get their attention.

In another section of this forum there's a discussion on the politeness of the developers on this project, or the lack thereof. Whether or not that's true, at the very least there's a kind of reluctance plaguing this project, namely to implement a more business-like strategy. Regardless of what everyone's opinion on this matter is, fact remains that that is how the world works.

GvG
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Re: Its better to wait

Post by GvG »

Elledan wrote:Wouldn't it make more sense to have this task assigned to someone else for the time being, then?
Elledan wrote:Point is, here we've got a promising project which many of us wish to make into a success. For that to happen, things have to be organized, scheduled and executed. Yes, it's very much business-like, but do you know why most businesses function so well?
This business-like approach sounds promising. I think we should give it a try. Elledan, I'm assigning you the task of writing a project plan to get the compatibility database designed, build and implemented. Remember, we don't have any assets, outsourcing probably won't be an option. So your next assignment will probably be to actually design, build and implement it. Can I have your project plan in my inbox by the end of the week please?
Huh, what do you mean, you have other responsibilities like your daytime job? You still have the evenings and weekends, don't you? Well, I don't really care that you have to take your kids to tennis practice tonight, that's your problem. If you care enough about the project, you'll find a way around it.

Elledan
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Re: Its better to wait

Post by Elledan »

GvG wrote: This business-like approach sounds promising. I think we should give it a try. Elledan, I'm assigning you the task of writing a project plan to get the compatibility database designed, build and implemented. Remember, we don't have any assets, outsourcing probably won't be an option. So your next assignment will probably be to actually design, build and implement it. Can I have your project plan in my inbox by the end of the week please?
I'm currently working on a CMS written in PHP. I think I could easily adapt it for this task, using Frik's (excellent, I might add) existing work as an example for the layout.

I'm still more a programmer than a manager, though, so any documentation I write will be short, concise and devoid of fluff ^_-
Huh, what do you mean, you have other responsibilities like your daytime job? You still have the evenings and weekends, don't you? Well, I don't really care that you have to take your kids to tennis practice tonight, that's your problem. If you care enough about the project, you'll find a way around it.
Forgive me for saying this, but if you use a denouncing tone like this people might mistake it for arrogance.

Fact is that I would really like to help with this project, but my skills as a kernel, or anything else below the OS's API for that matter, programmer are limited at best. I do however have quite some experience writing code for websites (PHP, MySQL, PostgreSQL) as well as basic webdesign (HTML, CSS) and I know I've got the time to at least set up a functional version of this compatibility database.

Discussions like this do leave an unpleasant taste in my mouth, though. It's most definitely not the most successful approach to attract new developers.

GvG
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Post by GvG »

Sorry, I was trying to point out that the big difference between ReactOS and a business (and let's face it, Linux is a business) is that in a business you can actually tell people what to work on. Not so in ReactOS. It's a 100% volunteer effort. That means that people donate their time and they can decide for themselves what they want to work on. We can give pointers, but in the end it's up to them.

If you are serious about wanting to help with the website, that's great! The best person to contact would be terrence, he's our website coordinator. I'm not sure if the app db would be the best thing to work on though, frik85 already has a lot of code from his "old" website and it seems a waste to throw that away. But I'm sure there is other web related stuff you can do. For example, implement the "change password" feature. Or setting up a system so we can store the scripts in svn.

Elledan
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Post by Elledan »

GvG wrote:Sorry, I was trying to point out that the big difference between ReactOS and a business (and let's face it, Linux is a business) is that in a business you can actually tell people what to work on. Not so in ReactOS. It's a 100% volunteer effort. That means that people donate their time and they can decide for themselves what they want to work on. We can give pointers, but in the end it's up to them.
Notice I didn't say that the ROS project should be transformed into a business, just that it should adopt some more business-like strategies. I quote:
Point is, here we've got a promising project which many of us wish to make into a success. For that to happen, things have to be organized, scheduled and executed.
Organized as in there being consensus on what the remaining tasks are, scheduled as in these tasks having been assigned a priority and someone willing to take on that task.

I very much understand that there's no business here with (paid) employees, and that any developer or other project member can quit or go on a vacation at any time. In that it's no different from any other volunteer-based organization.

All I'm trying to say is that since we all want this project to succeed, we might just as well choose for the most efficient strategy.
If you are serious about wanting to help with the website, that's great! The best person to contact would be terrence, he's our website coordinator. I'm not sure if the app db would be the best thing to work on though, frik85 already has a lot of code from his "old" website and it seems a waste to throw that away. But I'm sure there is other web related stuff you can do. For example, implement the "change password" feature. Or setting up a system so we can store the scripts in svn.
Thanks :)

forrestcupp
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Post by forrestcupp »

Someone once tried to kick me out of my volunteer job (unrelated to ROS) so they could take my place. I was very offended, and didn't let the person have my job. You can't just come into someone else's project that is already in motion and try to change everything. If you don't like how things are run, find a different project that you like. If there isn't such a project, either start your own, or let it go.

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Jaix
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Voluteer VS. Employee

Post by Jaix »

I think the important thing with the approach to this question is that the ones who are volunteers needs to find there job fun and valuable both to themselfs and to others.

If you take away one of these parts the volunteer will become weary and loose his drive to accomplish something, thats why we always need to approach these things in such a way that everyone (or a majority) can have an internal drive to change work systems/ methods.

It is possible to have a more "commercial" style of organization in the ROS project, but it is very important that the volunteers will feel that it is a good thing that give them a feeling that it's better, more efficient och more fun to work in that way.

If someone of us feels we are under constant pressure we will get tired and burn out.

To be able to make such a change there need to be some guys with a lot of carisma and vision to make the majority feel good about it.
At least this is what I think (my experience).
If we could gather people in all different areas and connect them to ROS and see the potential in them and not getting threatened by them and assign them to the area of their expertice we could build a strong organization that is fun to work for and with.

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