WARNING: is MS-Novell going to stop us ?

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Are you scared about the P.C.A. ?

Err... heeeelllp meeee !!!
4
10%
F*ck them all !
37
90%
 
Total votes: 41

forart
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Post by forart »

...and here's another MS "study" against open source:
Wipro: ICT in European Schools wrote:Satisfaction with Microsoft® products is higher among students and schools, when compared with similar open source software (OSS) solutions, according to a new report by Wipro Technologies. Microsoft, who commissioned the study, released the results today.

Wipro’s Product Strategy and Architecture (PSA) practice compared the use and benefits of the two platforms in 73 schools across six European countries. The findings state that user satisfaction with Microsoft software is higher among both student and teacher communities, who find Microsoft products easier to use, richer in functionality, better integrated, and better suited to supporting education activities than OSS alternatives.

In addition, Microsoft products were considerably less expensive to manage and maintain than open source equivalents, counteracting the perceived costs savings from OSS’s lack of licensing costs.
ICT In European Schools - A Value and Cost Analysis by Wipro PSA June 2007.pdf

Case Study Italy May 2007.pdf

Case Study Poland June 2007.pdf

Case Study Spain June 2007.pdf

Case Study UK June 2007.pdf

:?
»Forward Agency NPO
In progress we (always) trust.

Reacter
Posts: 326
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Location: Tornado Alley

Post by Reacter »

Good for mickeysoft. They can publish all the **** they want to, making it *seem* that we are illegal and hard to use, but what really matters is that, if Microsoft tries taking down a small bouy on the Open Source ocean, they will quickly be slammed by more than water. I'm so sick of Microsoft Windows errors today, I just got my 15th bluescreen in one hour. What kind of easier is doing 30 system restores, 18 driver resets, 153 reboots, and a whole host of other crap(in one day.), when in ReactOS, I have a server on it for a month!
More ReactOS, please!

FSX
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:23 am

Post by FSX »

forart wrote:...and here's another MS "study" against open source:
Wipro: ICT in European Schools wrote:Satisfaction with Microsoft® products is higher among students and schools, when compared with similar open source software (OSS) solutions, according to a new report by Wipro Technologies. Microsoft, who commissioned the study, released the results today.

Wipro’s Product Strategy and Architecture (PSA) practice compared the use and benefits of the two platforms in 73 schools across six European countries. The findings state that user satisfaction with Microsoft software is higher among both student and teacher communities, who find Microsoft products easier to use, richer in functionality, better integrated, and better suited to supporting education activities than OSS alternatives.

In addition, Microsoft products were considerably less expensive to manage and maintain than open source equivalents, counteracting the perceived costs savings from OSS’s lack of licensing costs.
ICT In European Schools - A Value and Cost Analysis by Wipro PSA June 2007.pdf

Case Study Italy May 2007.pdf

Case Study Poland June 2007.pdf

Case Study Spain June 2007.pdf

Case Study UK June 2007.pdf

:?
Easier to use than what? It doesn't say, so for all I care, they are comparing Windows to FreeDOS. We all know the winner there... :twisted:

EDIT:

@Reacter: I feel ya, man, we just had to reinstall Windows on one of our computers. And a bit before that, we had some bizarre registry problem that apparently fixed itself.

EDIT2:

Who the Sharpie is Wipro?
Last edited by FSX on Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

hto
Developer
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Post by hto »

I just got my 15th bluescreen in one hour. What kind of easier is doing 30 system restores, 18 driver resets, 153 reboots, and a whole host of other crap(in one day.), [...]
What do you do under Windows, so it crashes so often? :)

I got only a few bluescreens on XP, and all of them due to a videodriver. Actually, I have got much more crashes with Linux and BSD kernels (and X Window) then with XP. But it is unfair comparsion in favour of Microsoft, since GNU/Linux and BSD systems was used more intensively, and XP only for some tasks.

bobsobol
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:59 pm

Microsoft in Schools

Post by bobsobol »

Okay, BSOD = Kernel Panic = Bad Driver or Failing Device

I've seen BSOD very little on NT 5 based systems, unless I install a hacked, or "as close as I can get". Usually old device that has not NT 5 (2k/XP/2k3) drivers. Or there is a problem device, usually overheat, dry joints, or cracked or static damaged circuits.

Easier than what? Seems (reading the report) easier than Win98 with third party network management. They seem to be comparing the network management built in to 2003 against 3rd party tools. Open Source LDAP for example, maybe Novel?

The other Comparison they make is between AD and GPMC in 98... well that's not OSS either, though you can (as the school where I work does) easily dump it and AD for a third party Registry Tweaker that applies a profile to a machine, and/or user account on connection to the domain and login. Or, as the school I was reading about had done, get in contractors to do the tweaks for you... Though I wouldn't and I don't think our school (so far from the capital) could afford it.

What they clearly aren't comparing it to, is a system with BSD Servers, and Linux Workstations running Wine... for example.

The reason (in my country) that they can't possibly make that comparison is that Microsoft Office is part of the National Curriculum.

The obvious OSS network setup would implement OOo, K-Office or StarOffice... Heck it would be easier to implement Corel WordPerfect Office in an OSS network than MSO. However it is still not impossible. Office 2003 works under Wine, it's just the installer that doesn't, the solution is to image it's installation on a Windows machine and transfer the installed image to the Linux Desktop.

The reason we can't go OSS, for the desktop either, is because "Microsoft Explorer" is also part of our curriculum training. (And as further evidence of government complacency in this Microsoft Education conspiricy the ECDL) Though the rate it changes, I don't see the point in teaching it to Secondary School kids.

Anyway, I do know schools (Primary and outside or national borders) which standardise on Mac based systems... These are only partially OSS. OSS OS, Closed UI. I'm not sure how OS X server works, they seem to go for BSD servers, so I presume there must be a reason for that. It may be purely financial though.

Interestingly, if you trained our kids on MSO Mac, they would fail their exams, because the questions expect MSO Windows answers which differ considerably from the way you would do things on the same product released for a different OS.

In our Secondary Education system, there really is no other choice than Microsoft Windows on our Workstations... The only thing we do have some control over, in terms of choice, is the Servers and staff only machine, like teacher laptops. If they implement distribution of Windows Profiles and Security Policies, provide simple File Shares and such, then we can use what we like. Some of our teachers have plucked up the courage to run Ubunto on their laptop.

Therefore, I can only assume that this survey is comparing server technologies in a Windows Network environment... 2003 AD is indeed the ideal solution for Domain Controllers most of the time, but I think some Linux distributions can handle AD. The question then is, considering in-house support is paid less than the cleaning staff in schools here, can they afford the staff training to manage AD in linux... Again, Schools get free training sessions on using Microsoft Systems from the government. There are many such perks to compensate for the naff wage. ;)

They are right. Microsoft is cheaper than OSS in schools here. Because of government subsidy. The TCO is quite low anyway, the training will cost with OSS, where the cost is to the Government not the School with Microsoft.

In any event, this is a nonsense survey reinforcing the current tunnel vision Microsoft has encouraged national leaderships to follow. I often think there must be some serious "back handers" going on to enforce this. I may well think that... they couldn't possibly comment. ;)

Z98
Release Engineer
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Post by Z98 »

This is getting out of hand. In all technicality, I should have moved this thread when it first popped up, but I let it slide. If you guys continue on ranting about MS, I'll either lock this thread or move it.

bobsobol
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:59 pm

Post by bobsobol »

:shock: Was I ranting about Microsoft? :oops: Ranting probably, not all of it about Microsoft, and not all of it bad. I try to remain level headed about their corporate practices. Nobody can be right all the time, if MS make a bad judgement call that only makes them a more human organisation. Criticism is not productive, but what is also human is learning from the mistakes of the past.

I have considered the thread to be running off topic, and tried to stay with it. But the discussion has been good and fair mannered for the most part I think, even if it's not the ideal place for it.

Forum Admin has the right to move or lock as they see fit. If you move it I hope I know where it goes. ;)

The ranting is about how to stay legal in a changing and multi-national legal system, while maintaining the project goals of compatibility with the Win32 OS platform. How to make the project of benefit against it's commercial equivalent, and what may have to remain a technology unique to the Microsoft variants of the Win32 platform... I think. If such elements can be seen, this would only remain a USP (Unique Selling Point) for them, and good on them. I don't think there is any patentable technology in the Win32 OS which would stop this project in it's tracks.

If, and where the conversation strayed, for my part, I apologise.

Reacter
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Location: Tornado Alley

Post by Reacter »

I must apologize for getting ticked after a failed installation. It's nothing to get mad about, but, that's a lot of rebooting. Question: If ReactOS, WINE, or Linux where hurt in the court of law, would a Windows-compatible OS I am developing have to hide or shut down?
More ReactOS, please!

Z98
Release Engineer
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Post by Z98 »

Depends on how "hurt" we are. If MS actually wins a trade secrets case, that's gonna screw over every project that may deal with MS tech, from Samba to Mono. However, that outcome is very unlikely. If MS goes for the copyright angle, as long as you ensure you cleanly implemented whatever you're doing, the likelihood of MS succeeding in shutting you down is unlikely. On the other hand, if they use the patents tactic, well, that I can't predict simply because no major corporation has launched a full blown patent offensive with the expectation of seeing it through the courts.

Reacter
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Location: Tornado Alley

Post by Reacter »

Okay. Thanks.
More ReactOS, please!

bobsobol
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:59 pm

Post by bobsobol »

Yes, I don't think it would be a matter of "Winning" a Patent action, so much as financially damaging with it.

If they can drag it out long enough, it may be very difficult for non-commercial (or not yet commercial) organisations to withstand the legal fees... and that is about the thing which worries me most.

Reacter
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Location: Tornado Alley

Post by Reacter »

Could we even withstand the starter fees?
More ReactOS, please!

Z98
Release Engineer
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Post by Z98 »

The only attack that we seriously have to worry about is if MS does a copyright infringement case. And even that we actually stand a good chance of winning.

If a patent or trade secrets angle was used, we're likely to draw the sympathies if not outright support of the EFF and FSF. The FSF I'm sure is drooling to do something about the patent mess, as is the EFF. The trade secrets issue would run right into what WINE and Mono are doing, and those are major players. So we likely wouldn't be alone in facing MS if it came to a legal showdown.

Vorg
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:15 pm

Post by Vorg »

The problem with ms isn't if you could win in court. They don't need to have a legal toe nail. they have so much money they can throw at their lawyers no one can afford to defend themselves. MS just drags it out in court until their victum has to give up because they are bankrupt.

Iain Marais
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Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:31 pm

MS-Novell patent agreement

Post by Iain Marais »

If Novell had any brains, they would not work with MS. They should be focusing on Linux instead of helping MS strengthen their illegal monopoly

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