NTFS. No really.

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crhylove
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NTFS. No really.

Post by crhylove » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:49 pm

http://developers.slashdot.org/article. ... 15/1346250

In case you haven't already, start hating me now!

rhY

frik85
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Post by frik85 » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:05 pm

We have already an disussion about the same topic:
http://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2516

NTFS-3G is just a FUSE driver (user mode). Read the related mailing list and then you will see that it has only partial write support and mess around with NTFS (so that you have to boot WinNT to fix the partition MFT, etc.).

Matthias
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Post by Matthias » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:42 pm

frik85 wrote:Read the related mailing list and then you will see that it has only partial write support and mess around with NTFS (so that you have to boot WinNT to fix the partition MFT, etc.).
No. NTFS-3G offers full read-write NTFS support. I've got it running right now, and it works perfectly fine.

Cristan
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Post by Cristan » Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:21 pm

@crhylove: what are you waiting for? Port it to ReactOS! :P

In reality, porting is pretty hard to do, and there are still a lot of functions who aren't safe. But I have to agree it's a good development.

quote from here:
- Someday, when ReactOS can handle it(kernel) we could use the NTFS driver from windows. Some time after that someone WILL adapt the linux NTFS driver to ReactOS/Windows.

-edit: The link in the slashdot article is wrong. This is what it's all about. The idea is cool, but a 45% success rate in deleting a directory isn't that usable. But I've said it: it's a pretty cool development.

-edit 2: never mind about the last thing. I must have missed the good link.
Last edited by Cristan on Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

Matthias
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Post by Matthias » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:31 pm

Cristan wrote:there are still a lot of functions who aren't safe
There are no such functions in ntfsmount. ntfsmount won't destroy your NTFS partitions. Period.
Cristian wrote:This is what it's all about. The idea is cool, but a 45% success rate in deleting a directory isn't that usable.
Don't talk about stuff you don't understand. That page is about ntfsmount, which is an older NTFS driver that has been around for a while. Meanwhile, a new NTFS driver, called NTFS-3g was programmed, and it wasn't yet mentioned on linux-ntfs.org.
Look at this: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/foru ... um_id=2697

MadWolf
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Post by MadWolf » Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:21 am

hi all
what is it with ntfs?? it is a s~@t FS may be fast for 10 to 20 mins then you need to defrag the hd and at the max you need to defrag the hd every week fat 32 is better you can get away with not defrag the hd for 1 to 2 months and it is faster because you do not need to defrag it a lot

Z98
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Post by Z98 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:57 am

It's a permissions issue. FAT32 doesn't do permissions the way NTFS does. FAT32 may seem like a good filesystem, and it is for general purposes. However, it does have limitations that were apparently designed into it by Microsoft.

MadWolf
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Post by MadWolf » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:14 am

hi all
as i said ntf you need to defrag the hd every week
fat 32 is better you can get away with not defrag the hd for 1 to 2 months and it is faster because you do not need to defrag it a lot
imho i would rather have a fast fs that i do not need to defrag it a lot so fat32 wins

Z98
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Post by Z98 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:18 am

A rather lengthy argument already occured in a thread so I'll avoid repeating all that. As has been pointed out before, you're free to use whatever you want. But the fact that you don't need NTFS doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't need it.

MadWolf
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Post by MadWolf » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:57 am

ok you mist my point why wood the devs waste time on a ntfs fs driver
1)you need to defrag the hd every week

2)not open source

3)can be broken by ms

4)it is made by microsoft

5) a quote frome ros home page
Please bear in mind that ReactOS
0.3.0 RC1 is still in alpha stage and is not recommended for everyday
use.
6)imho if ms relest the source it would be faster to write a new fs then fix ms mistakes

7) just so you do not forget it is not open sourceand it is made by microsoft the two biggest reasons to say no to ntfs

ThePhysicist
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Post by ThePhysicist » Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:49 pm

MadWolf wrote:ok you mist my point why wood the devs waste time on a ntfs fs driver
1)you need to defrag the hd every week
Don't stuff your hdd to 99% and you don't have that problem. ;-)
2)not open source
If it was open source, there would be no need to write a new driver.
You probably mean no open specification.
3)can be broken by ms
I don't really agree on that argument. MS might change NTFS between 2 different Windows versions, but that's no problem. But they will probably not change NTFS in an incompatible way in one windows version. Why: Let's think you update your windows, change NTFS driver, do a lot of work and your fs get's incompatible to the old driver, then you make a rollback to before the update and your system get's messed up!
4)it is made by microsoft
That's a stupid argument. Windows is made by MS and the devs are trying to reimplement a windows compatible OS!
5) a quote frome ros home page
Please bear in mind that ReactOS
0.3.0 RC1 is still in alpha stage and is not recommended for everyday
use.
I don't understand that argument. What does the actual state of ROS have to do with an ntfs driver?
6)imho if ms relest the source it would be faster to write a new fs then fix ms mistakes
see 2)

But I agree the devs should concentrate on other stuff. If you have windows, simply use the windows driver, if you don't have windows, you don't need ntfs. And there are other open source drivers (also for windows) that would do just fine.

Cristan
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Post by Cristan » Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:53 pm

MadWolf wrote:hi all
what is it with ntfs??
Well, maybe it's because about 90% of the current windows users use NTFS, and it would be cool if those people could read their files in ReactOS.

I know, it's not the best FS around. That's why ReactOS won't use it by default. But for reading existing files it would be damn handy.

GreyGhost
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Post by GreyGhost » Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:44 pm

Please go through the "so many times discussed" NTFS posts...... ReactOS will have support when there is a stable driver which works...... Also when ReactOS will be good enough to support them...... u'll come across more than enough info bout "Why no NTFS in ROS" with just the "forums SEARCH" feature that the ReactOS forums seem to have .........

Z98
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Post by Z98 » Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:11 pm

And there is the fact that it's unlikely the devs would have to write an NTFS driver from scratch anyways. This topic was originally started because it was pointing out such a driver, though of course porting is also a lot of work.

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:29 am

ThePhysicist
Quote: 3)can be broken by ms

I don't really agree on that argument. MS might change NTFS between 2 different Windows versions, but that's no problem. But they will probably not change NTFS in an incompatible way in one windows version. Why: Let's think you update your windows, change NTFS driver, do a lot of work and your fs get's incompatible to the old driver, then you make a rollback to before the update and your system get's messed up!
Sorry to say Microsoft already has. Windows 2000 and that was just between Service Packs. Encrypted files if you ran with the old driver it would destory them. Data loss central. The change does not have to be big all it just has to be is a change that our driver does not know and will cause it to destory files. Rolling back a NTFS driver is extreamly harmful at times. Thinking that only very important files would be encrypted.

Distrust of this is personal experience. If Microsoft has done it once no reason why they cannot do it again. They blamed the techs even that the SP did not have a notice about any possiable problems. There reason the install disk should have been slipstreamed with the SP so not installing a version of windows with secuirty problems.

Note they will just blame Reactos for not being compad.

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