Do I have to hate Microsoft to be a part of this community?

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Myrddin Emrys
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Do I have to hate Microsoft to be a part of this community?

Post by Myrddin Emrys » Tue May 23, 2006 10:36 pm

Hello all. I was turned on to ReactOS through wikipedia, and since I am a computer science student turning professional in a short time here, I decided to check it out.

Let me preface this by saying I really hate Linux. It's not just the fact that it's "different", it's that it's difficult to learn initially, it's foreign, and a lot of times the people behind it are irrationally angry at Microsoft and other companies like them.

I suppose the biggest turn off for me for Linux is the people. Traditionally, they seem to be militaristic in their "Takedown MS LOL Bill Gates more like BORG Gates" kind of mentality, which I think is stupid.

So where do I stand? I love Microsoft, I love their products, and I love Windows. I understand that Microsoft is a business, and while some of their tactics are brutal, they are brilliant from a business standpoint. I also understand the need for a company that relies on their software to make a living to hide their code from others, and I do not grudge Microsoft from being closed-source for a minute.

That all being said, I would like to learn more about how OSes work in general, and I dislike Unix. I was hoping that this project would be the thing I could learn from, and have already taken steps to install the latest edition on my laptop (although I am having problems with the install, but more on that later).

Lots of people here seem to be anti-Windows though. I had hoped that a project such as this would stem more from an academic purpose than a bitter one. Is that the case, or is this a project just to be a thorn in Microsoft's side? I would really rather NOT it be the latter, as I think an academic community can easily force a coexisting of both sides.

I've taken an OS class and worked with the infamous NachOS already, although due to unusual circumstances we did not get as far as we would have liked into NachOS, I gained a better understanding of an OSes workings than anything else so far.

I really hope this project can be the next step in my education, as well as alowing me to contribute without fear of fueling some illconceived takedown plan.

Coviti
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Post by Coviti » Tue May 23, 2006 11:05 pm

The answer in short - Absolutely not!

We accept anyone, Microsoft hater or not. You won't be picked on if you don't hate Microsoft, at least not by me. ;)

Welcome to ReactOS, and I hope you enjoy your stay here! :D

Cristan
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Location: The Netherlands

Post by Cristan » Tue May 23, 2006 11:44 pm

Off course not. I am not a microsoft hater as well, but I organise LAN party's with computers present, and I am very interested in ReactOS in order to prevent licencing issues. Also, ReactOS takes up very little HD space, which is also a reason to like it. Also, it is very handy that you can simply legally download an ISO from a website with an OS on it which can run all your programs.

I guess everyone has it's reasons, but don't think you have to be a Microsoft hater. I guess those people won't even concern installing a clone of Windows, and stick with Linux ;).
Last edited by Cristan on Wed May 24, 2006 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ged
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Re: Do I have to hate Microsoft to be a part of this communi

Post by Ged » Tue May 23, 2006 11:49 pm

Myrddin Emrys wrote: Lots of people here seem to be anti-Windows though.
Then they are following the wrong project.
How can we hate something we are copying ;)

I personally don't like some of MS' policies, but I don't hate them, and I certainly don't hate Windows, I love it :)

GreatLord
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Post by GreatLord » Tue May 23, 2006 11:53 pm

Hi Myrddin Emrys
I love windows my self, for it easy to use, But my love to ReactOS is bigger and you will learn alot from ReactOS, and I am still learing from ReactOS diffent stuff. ReactOS have slitgit diffent archtect struct that ms, but we trying follow Mirosoft NT 4 or higher desgin (windows NT, 2k, XP).
I hope we are soon ready to release 0.3.0 for we are already working on the release process on it. We need fix some regress and some others bugs before we can do a 0.3.0 rc1 alpha after the rc1 it often follow 2-3 more rc release before the final release are done for 0.3.0 alpha, I can proimes alot have happen under this time we devloping ros.

GreyGhost
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Post by GreyGhost » Wed May 24, 2006 5:57 am

Welcome Myrddin Emrys ,
This is my personal opinion.....
Windows is easy to use and learn and i love it....
and dont worry .... "u wont be picked upon ..."

forart
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Post by forart » Wed May 24, 2006 9:59 am

Open source philosophy is NOT against someone or something.
It's just a different method to develop something (not only software -> OScar).

For example: don't like LINUX for desktop usage, so i support ROS.
Anyway i'm not against linux. Is "someone" likes it, then i hope they'll continue to support it.

I'm a BeOS fan too (i really like the idea of a multimedia OS), so i also support Haiku even if it's not LINUX nor Windows.

If all those projects where closed sourced, no kind of "knowledge exchange" would be possible, so: i promote&support the open source philosophy, not the closed souce one.

Last note: i think that osFree (open source OS/2 - the father of WinNT - project) needs everyone's help.
»Forward Agency NPO
In progress we (always) trust.

ThePhysicist
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Post by ThePhysicist » Wed May 24, 2006 11:29 am

Patchworks wrote: Last note: i think that osFree (open source OS/2 - the father of WinNT - project) needs everyone's help.
Interesting. It looks like they have only developed command line tools.
Maybe they should develop a ReactOS OS/2 subsystem. That would save them a lot of work.

reub2000
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Location: Evanston, IL, US

Post by reub2000 » Wed May 24, 2006 5:37 pm

Why would you clone something that you don't like?

Dr. Fred
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Post by Dr. Fred » Wed May 24, 2006 10:24 pm

Patchworks wrote:Last note: i think that osFree (open source OS/2 - the father of WinNT - project) needs everyone's help.
The father of NT is still VMS. OS/2 is may be a Scotch cousin....
"Takedown MS LOL Bill Gates more like BORG Gates" kind of mentality, which I think is stupid.
Very true, however this kind of opinion is maybe enough motivation to write a game like xBill. But not for a OS which takes years if not even decades to develop.
I really hope this project can be the next step in my education, as well as alowing me to contribute without fear of fueling some illconceived takedown plan.
Please drop in our IRC channel. You willl be able to find almost all of the devs there, while only a minority regularly read this forum.
Where do you want ReactOS to go today ?

jason.b.c
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Post by jason.b.c » Thu May 25, 2006 7:54 am

Let me preface this by saying I really hate Linux. It's not just the fact that it's "different", it's that it's difficult to learn initially
No it's not, You shouldn't knock something just because "you" can't figure it out.. If you really can't figure it out then all you have to do is get online in a linux forum and ask the question, Somebody knows how to help. You're not the only one that has ever had that problem..
and a lot of times the people behind it are irrationally angry at Microsoft and other companies like them.
No their not.!, Their just tired of battling viruses/spyware/adware/malicious software/etc.. To put it simple " They wanted an alternative "
I suppose the biggest turn off for me for Linux is the people. Traditionally, they seem to be militaristic in their "Takedown MS LOL Bill Gates more like BORG Gates" kind of mentality, which I think is stupid.
And no they don't.!, Their just tired of All the stupid f***ing rules put on their/our heads saying were not allowed to do this and that and the other thing.. Nobody's trying to "Take down anything.!"
So where do I stand? I love Microsoft, I love their products, and I love Windows.
So then really what your saying is that:> " I love viruses", "I just love it when my computer crashes after being infected with something that i didn't even want in the first place" , "I love it when i lose all my important information and then i have to reformatte and reinstall from scratch" ...

Yann64
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Location: France

Post by Yann64 » Thu May 25, 2006 10:31 am

jason.b.c wrote:No it's not, You shouldn't knock something just because "you" can't figure it out.. If you really can't figure it out then all you have to do is get online in a linux forum and ask the question, Somebody knows how to help. You're not the only one that has ever had that problem..
Yes it is. A person totally new to computer will more easily understand the Windows architecture than the Linux one. You also will not have to drop on a forum to understand why you have to recompile the kernel to make a driver work because installing it means it will work, no tweaking needed. And you will also not have to go to a Linux forum to understand why you have dependencies problem generated every time you want to install a package that is not officially supported by your distribution.
jason.b.c wrote:No their not.!, Their just tired of battling viruses/spyware/adware/malicious software/etc.. To put it simple " They wanted an alternative "
Have been using windows for more than ten years and I think I only had once a virus problem. Linux is not affected by viruses and other malwares simply because it’s only marginally used as a desktop OS. Windows used correctly (with users not having administrators right) can be very secure. And ReactOS used as an administrator will also be vulnarable, that's why the default user account will not be an administrator one. I guess you don’t know how to use windows that much.
jason.b.c wrote:And no they don't.!, Their just tired of All the stupid f***ing rules put on their/our heads saying were not allowed to do this and that and the other thing.. Nobody's trying to "Take down anything.!"
Not allowed to do what? What are the rules Microsoft “putted on our head”? You are not making any point with such a vague assessment…
jason.b.c wrote:So then really what your saying is that:> " I love viruses", "I just love it when my computer crashes after being infected with something that i didn't even want in the first place" , "I love it when i lose all my important information and then i have to reformatte and reinstall from scratch" ...
Not getting viruses in windows is not difficult. I've been using both Linux and Windows for several years and Windows is still ahead as a desktop OS. From what you have written, I can only say that you are either someone who doesn’t know windows that much (and/or never tried to understant it), or a troll... If you hat ethat much Microsoft and their OS, I really don't know what you are doing on this forum

jatos
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Post by jatos » Thu May 25, 2006 12:09 pm

I would agree Yann64, you can run Windows, without getting virus's. On my home network, I only have one computer with a virus checker. No virus's yet.

Personally though I still prefer Linux, and my personal desktop is running that. Whilst I wouldn't say I hate Windows, I don't exactly like it either. Though that is me personally, you can either hate Windows or Love it, its your choice and just because you like Windows, doesn't mean you don't support ReactOS or any other OS. Though I will say, in Linux forums you will get a lot of people who hate Windows... which is often why they are Linux users.

Elledan
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Post by Elledan » Thu May 25, 2006 1:14 pm

It's not that there are so many people out there who hate MSFT, they're just more 'vocal' than the others ;)

I use Windows (2k, XP) on all of my desktop/HTPC systems, simply because it's the easiest option which provides me with all I need. Yet I consider putting Windows on a router, fileserver, webserver and similar dedicated server systems to be a poor choice at best.

I recognize Linux, UNIX, *BSD and similar as being excellent server (and/or embedded) OSs. I recognize Windows, Mac OS (X) and BeOS as being good desktop OSs.

The reason I support a project like ReactOS (and Haiku) is because I recognize the benefits Open Source can bring to a true desktop OS, even ignoring the price tag.

steveh
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Of course NOT

Post by steveh » Thu May 25, 2006 2:19 pm

People who don't want to use windows, but prefer Linux or Reactos may have very different motivations:

- they simply hate MS, for whatever reason it may be, maybe because of Bills billions... :twisted:

but there also also more rational answers from people refusing windows:

- they are unsatisfied with the quality of windows, the bugs, the security problems, the delays of MS patches... and want something compatible with windows but better, so they want Reactos

- they object MS price and marketing policy, i.e. function-restricted XP home is bundled with must PC's, it's difficult or impossible to have refound for XP home if you don't want it. But if you prefer the "complete" windows, means professional, the upgrade home to pro is relatively expensive

- they object MS software bundling policy. You cannot uninstall in a simple way the IE or the WMP from windows. You can only do that manually or wih the help of special software. And MSupdate does not cooperate with the firefox.

@Dr.Fred
>The father of NT is still VMS. OS/2 is may be a Scotch cousin....

I still do not quite understand this "triangular" relation winNT / OS2 / VMS:

I thought at the time of MSDOS and WIN3.0, MS started developping OS/2 for IBM. And then after "divorce", everyone continued development alone:
IBM finished OS/2,
and MS finished it's own development under the name "winNT", not to forget that the MS product got a "new face" by importing a lot of layout and style first from Win3.x and later from Win95...

So what's VMS in this. I only know VMS as a VT400 terminal mode based system on Digital VAXes and MicroVAXes. No GUI.
It had many advantages over terminal based unixes of that time:
Comfortable command syntax and argument structure, help functions, very detailed user rights management, very good error return codes and documentation of those.
So what is in winNT from VMS ?

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