Your most wanted feature for the 2019 Hackfest?

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Missingno50
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Your most wanted feature for the 2019 Hackfest?

Post by Missingno50 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:10 pm

I'm turning this into a general forum post where we can just discuss features that we want to see happen in Hackfest LONG in advance. This can help provide information why we could or could not do this next feature so we don't get swamped with suggestions that simply won't work or are too hard. The general new thread starts at page 3. Thanks! I hope this page stays alive so that this can continue to be a good source of information.
Original post on Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:10 pm
Since Hackfest 2018 is now kicked off, I want to present an idea. We've been using RS 232 for however long this project has lasted, and as you can tell, RS 232 ports did not last. I want to present a new idea for debugging. It should be simple enough to integrate, but I may be entirely wrong. I want debugging through the ethernet port. Not only did this port exist back when ReactOS first started, but it also still persists today, with almost every computer having this port. It's such a convent thing. So I ask anyone that's doing the Hackfest and has the knowhow to try to program the ethernet port to act as a debugging tool so I don't have to go out of my way to pay 90 dollars for an RS 232 card. Thanks for listening to this, and I apologize if this sounds like a broken record or sounds whiny-I did not get sleep.

Seriously, money doesn't grow on trees and this state is the 2nd highest in poverty rates.
Last edited by Missingno50 on Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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mrmajik45
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by mrmajik45 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:13 pm

Could help alot. My grandma's pc doesn't have a serial port and it would give all the info instead of a Tab + K
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Missingno50
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by Missingno50 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:38 pm

mrmajik45 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:13 pm
Could help alot. My grandma's pc doesn't have a serial port and it would give all the info instead of a Tab + K
Tab K is an option? Huh.
Anyways, I seriously want this feature simply because my real hardware doesn't have a port and I can't get it to install. It freezes USB input after 30 or so frames have passed.
"We are going to have to act, if we want to live in a different world."
Proud owner of one semi-modern ROS compatible computer. I hope to make an industry out of selling ROS compatibles the moment 0.5.0 releases.

cb88
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by cb88 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:54 pm

Missingno50 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:38 pm
mrmajik45 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:13 pm
Could help alot. My grandma's pc doesn't have a serial port and it would give all the info instead of a Tab + K
Tab K is an option? Huh.
Anyways, I seriously want this feature simply because my real hardware doesn't have a port and I can't get it to install. It freezes USB input after 30 or so frames have passed.
Part of the reason serial ports are used for debugging is they are extremely simple. Ethernet on the other hand requires much more of the OS to be working before it works. So, your computer is probably already hung before it even tries to get a DHCP address for intance (if you wanted to blast out debug info a bit earler I guess you could just broadcast it). Does the computer you are trying to get working have PCIE if so get/borrow a serial port card? https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCI-E-Express- ... 2237290238

Ethernet debugging could be useful but it is less likely to help if you have kernel issues. I'd suggest you try a VGAL build if you are having issues with a USB serial port.

Also as far as I know there is no iosynchronous USB support yet so might not be as useful for RS232 devices or other low latency usb applications.

karlexceed
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by karlexceed » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:58 pm

How would you receive the data on the other end? Are you imagining that this is some kind of RS-232 over IP? Or a direct connection between two computers where the other is running some program to receive the data via it's Ethernet port?

Missingno50
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by Missingno50 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:24 am

cb88 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:54 pm
Missingno50 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:38 pm
mrmajik45 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:13 pm
Could help alot. My grandma's pc doesn't have a serial port and it would give all the info instead of a Tab + K
Tab K is an option? Huh.
Anyways, I seriously want this feature simply because my real hardware doesn't have a port and I can't get it to install. It freezes USB input after 30 or so frames have passed.
Part of the reason serial ports are used for debugging is they are extremely simple. Ethernet on the other hand requires much more of the OS to be working before it works. So, your computer is probably already hung before it even tries to get a DHCP address for intance (if you wanted to blast out debug info a bit earler I guess you could just broadcast it). Does the computer you are trying to get working have PCIE if so get/borrow a serial port card? https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCI-E-Express- ... 2237290238

Ethernet debugging could be useful but it is less likely to help if you have kernel issues. I'd suggest you try a VGAL build if you are having issues with a USB serial port.

Also as far as I know there is no iosynchronous USB support yet so might not be as useful for RS232 devices or other low latency usb applications.
See above. I mention 40$ shipping for a reason.
Anyways VGal freezes totally on load so cannot use that, a bummer seeing as it could probably help.
"We are going to have to act, if we want to live in a different world."
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Missingno50
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by Missingno50 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:26 am

karlexceed wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:58 pm
How would you receive the data on the other end? Are you imagining that this is some kind of RS-232 over IP? Or a direct connection between two computers where the other is running some program to receive the data via it's Ethernet port?
The latter option, as I would assume it would be easier to program. Not only that but 232 over IP sounds like a hassle to receive anyways. I THINK PuTTy supports the ethernet port as is...
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anthracen
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by anthracen » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:55 am

Missingno50 wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:26 am
The latter option, as I would assume it would be easier to program. Not only that but 232 over IP sounds like a hassle to receive anyways. I THINK PuTTy supports the ethernet port as is...
pfff. :lol: dude, before making brilliant suggestions, you need to learn a little on the subject.

Missingno50
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by Missingno50 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:02 am

anthracen wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:55 am
Missingno50 wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:26 am
The latter option, as I would assume it would be easier to program. Not only that but 232 over IP sounds like a hassle to receive anyways. I THINK PuTTy supports the ethernet port as is...
pfff. :lol: dude, before making brilliant suggestions, you need to learn a little on the subject.
Give me slack, Im 50 miles away from the nearest computer.
Edit:Furthermore, notice the word THINK. I wasnt sure when I wrote that. Thanks for laughing at me, I totally feel more secure about my ideas and will totally share them in the future.
/s
"We are going to have to act, if we want to live in a different world."
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karlexceed
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by karlexceed » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:26 am

The com0com project, which the ROS community is familiar with, has a module named com2tcp. It can redirect COM output to IP and have it be received on the other side by a client.

Here's the catch about debugging: if the com0com or com2tcp services crash... no debug output.

Also, no clue if they work within ROS or not. It's typically used around here to get debug output from within a VBox VM from the host PC.

But if you wanna try it - please give it a shot. I'm curious to know if it works or not.

Missingno50
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by Missingno50 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:54 am

karlexceed wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:26 am
The com0com project, which the ROS community is familiar with, has a module named com2tcp. It can redirect COM output to IP and have it be received on the other side by a client.

Here's the catch about debugging: if the com0com or com2tcp services crash... no debug output.

Also, no clue if they work within ROS or not. It's typically used around here to get debug output from within a VBox VM from the host PC.

But if you wanna try it - please give it a shot. I'm curious to know if it works or not.
I couldn't tell you because the machine I need to debug freezes USB input/output after 30-45 frames.
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Proud owner of one semi-modern ROS compatible computer. I hope to make an industry out of selling ROS compatibles the moment 0.5.0 releases.

middings
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by middings » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:36 am

karlexceed wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:58 pm
How would you receive the data on the other end? Are you imagining that this is some kind of RS-232 over IP? Or a direct connection between two computers where the other is running some program to receive the data via it's Ethernet port?
Perhaps the original poster (OP) wishes ReactOS had something like this Microsoft feature: Setting Up KDNET Network Kernel Debugging Automatically. If so, the OP wishes for much, Microsoft didn't make this available until Windows 8 and network debugging does not operate with every network interface controller (NIC).

Missingno50
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by Missingno50 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:15 am

middings wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:36 am
karlexceed wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:58 pm
How would you receive the data on the other end? Are you imagining that this is some kind of RS-232 over IP? Or a direct connection between two computers where the other is running some program to receive the data via it's Ethernet port?
Perhaps the original poster (OP) wishes ReactOS had something like this Microsoft feature: Setting Up KDNET Network Kernel Debugging Automatically. If so, the OP wishes for much, Microsoft didn't make this available until Windows 8 and network debugging does not operate with every network interface controller (NIC).
I already cleared up I didnt want something like this, I just wanted me able to plug in an ethernet cable into two computers and have it run like how debugging works with current 232. :lol:
But seriously, I really thought I made it extra clear what I wanted. Overall great idea, maybe not the right way to do it.
Look, we need to stray away from 232 debugging. Its more outdated than my Tandy 1000 at this point. We have three options for modern debugging routes:232 debugging cards costing upwards of 100 USD in California and overall a terrible plan, USB debugging which is a lot of work, and ethernet cable debugging, which in theory would be the easiest to program in theory because we have network drivers already and could use them to send data to another computer.
"We are going to have to act, if we want to live in a different world."
Proud owner of one semi-modern ROS compatible computer. I hope to make an industry out of selling ROS compatibles the moment 0.5.0 releases.

hbelusca
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by hbelusca » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:53 pm

What the hackfesters will actually work on: https://reactos.org/wiki/ReactOS_Hackfe ... ists#Ideas .

Missingno50
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Re: My most wanted feature for Hackfest

Post by Missingno50 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:26 pm

hbelusca wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:53 pm
What the hackfesters will actually work on: https://reactos.org/wiki/ReactOS_Hackfe ... ists#Ideas .
Huh. I was not aware of this page. Thanks for letting me know. Will this be on the table for 2019 as a possible idea, or do you have no idea yourself?

Edit:I should really wait for a webpage to load before I post something. I'm aware that I'm an idiot.
"We are going to have to act, if we want to live in a different world."
Proud owner of one semi-modern ROS compatible computer. I hope to make an industry out of selling ROS compatibles the moment 0.5.0 releases.

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