Greek translation

Discuss translation of both ReactOS and the website here.

Moderators: Moderator Team, Web Team

Post Reply
crackez
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:17 am

Greek translation

Post by crackez » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:58 am

Hi there guys,

In the past I've tried to translate the website, while I had translators access(I went to the irc channel many years ago and someone gave me access although some other guy was a bit mad about it --don't remember nicks it's been more than 3years ago) I couldn't make content available and had to wait for someone to "confirm" my translations.. no one ever confirm my translations so they were useless and I stop doing that and after a year or two I saw that my translator access is no longer valid.

I've send a few e-mails here and there but no one bother to deal with them. I tried to gain proper translator access(so I won't need some sort of confirmation) but without success

I'm really wondering, do you need help or not? This is my very last attempt, I see that you have no Greek language available for the website and if others tried and find the same difficulties I don't blame them for stop trying.

P.S. It's weird when you offer help and no one make an attempt to grab the opportunity
P.S.2 My last translators work was for an open source program called UltraDefrag, you can check out my work

vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2732
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by vicmarcal » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:08 pm

Hi crackez!
Who did you send emails?
For sure I didnt receive any from you. Since one year ago we are using a new Drupal website, so inactive translators at that time has lost his access. If you want to translate, you've to request access again (we moved from our own CMS to Drupal and a counterback was this issue).
Sorry if noone has answered you, however for me this is the first time I heard of your issue, and we'll try to fix asap.
Thanks for reporting!
Image

Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by Webunny » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:42 pm

crackez wrote:Hi there guys,

In the past I've tried to translate the website, while I had translators access(I went to the irc channel many years ago and someone gave me access although some other guy was a bit mad about it --don't remember nicks it's been more than 3years ago) I couldn't make content available and had to wait for someone to "confirm" my translations.. no one ever confirm my translations so they were useless and I stop doing that and after a year or two I saw that my translator access is no longer valid.
Welcome to the club! :)
I've send a few e-mails here and there but no one bother to deal with them. I tried to gain proper translator access(so I won't need some sort of confirmation) but without success

I'm really wondering, do you need help or not? This is my very last attempt, I see that you have no Greek language available for the website and if others tried and find the same difficulties I don't blame them for stop trying.

P.S. It's weird when you offer help and no one make an attempt to grab the opportunity
P.S.2 My last translators work was for an open source program called UltraDefrag, you can check out my work
Welcome to the club!! :D

I find your experiences quite recognisable. Mainly because I've experienced them myself, for the Dutch translation. It really does seem, at times, like one is having to make an uphill battle *to be able* to help. I've been trying to do the Dutch translation to get published: it took ages. The last touch (on the main page) still isn't quite there yet, but I can't do anything about it, because it needs approval or special access or something or whatever. I think it's been 4-5 months now...

That said, I do think vicamaral (the new PR guy) tries to do his best and is simply overworked/stretched thin, for everything he has to do - and IGG was there too. So I've been very patient for months. But I do hope it will finally get done, now that IGG is finished. And maybe you can get access too, then (though I seem to vaguely remember z98 saying there wouldn't be any other translators, or something of the sort.)

That said, vicmarcal...: why is it, that it's been made so difficult to help, even with the translations. Ok, I understand you need to check out if they can do it: the webinterface to make a translation is far from being intuitive (and I'm using an euphemism here). I'm used to html and such, so I translate directly into that , instead of using the 'normal' text, which is even more of a pain in the ass. So I can agree and I understand that you want to check out at first if one is capable enough without screwing things up (though the fact that you can screw it up that easily isn't a good sign for the system on itself). But, you know, after a couple of pages you should be able to tell. For instance, and I'll take me as an example; I've made several (if not all) pages in Dutch; it should be clear by now that I CAN do it, and that I'm doing a proper job at it. Then why is still necessary to 'control' everything? Sometimes, it took ages for a page to get 'published', and I wonder why? Does it take so long to acknowledge someone is technically capable of doing the job? Is there mayhaps a control to check if *the content* is ok (which, since one doesn't know the language itself, would explain why it takes so long, because one has to find *someone else* who understands the language?). I'm just speculating here, but I'm just wondering why it always takes this long. Just give full access for that language altogether, including to publish, once you're convinced a translator is capable and of good will. It doesn't need to take ages in checking everything out, if you're that far: I think you/z98/me/other translators have better things to do then waste time this way.

Apart from going for a more intuitive interface for translation (something wiki-like, maybe?), I do think one should/could be a bit more responsive and allowing, towards people wanting to help/translate. Certainly after a couple of pages where they show they can/are willing to do it.

Now, the above was meant as constructive criticism, vicmarcal, and I know you're not really to blame for any of this, and also that you've been quite busy with IGG, as said. I just hope you'll consider some points raised here. And I also hope the couple of things we spoke of in pm will get going, now that IGG has finished.

Z98
Release Engineer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 8:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Greek translation

Post by Z98 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:09 pm

1) I see nothing in the review queue from you right now.

2) We use drupal as the CMS so coming to us to complain about the user interface is a tad pointless, there's nothing we can do about it short of writing custom code and that is not something we're willing to commit the resources to.

3) Maintainer access still has too much power in drupal for us to be willing to grant it to people whose judgment we have issues with. Until we can put together a more locked down permissions scheme, we will be extremely selective of whom we grant maintainer access to.

As regarding crackez's questions, a search through my inbox shows an unread email from about a year ago that looks like it slipped through the cracks. Generally if you do not get at least a pingback from me within a week, it means that your email got buried and you'll want to try again. Due to work and other projects, my inbox grows at the rate of around ~50 emails each day. Victor also tends to be faster in responding.

Finally for translations, at this point the project will not be adding any new translations to the website. The ones currently present basically had a developer or administrative team member sponsor them and is about the only reason they are currently present, otherwise you would probably see only two or three translation sets.

Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by Webunny » Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:40 pm

Z98 wrote:1) I see nothing in the review queue from you right now.

2) We use drupal as the CMS so coming to us to complain about the user interface is a tad pointless, there's nothing we can do about it short of writing custom code and that is not something we're willing to commit the resources to.

3) Maintainer access still has too much power in drupal for us to be willing to grant it to people whose judgment we have issues with. Until we can put together a more locked down permissions scheme, we will be extremely selective of whom we grant maintainer access to.

As regarding crackez's questions, a search through my inbox shows an unread email from about a year ago that looks like it slipped through the cracks. Generally if you do not get at least a pingback from me within a week, it means that your email got buried and you'll want to try again. Due to work and other projects, my inbox grows at the rate of around ~50 emails each day. Victor also tends to be faster in responding.

Finally for translations, at this point the project will not be adding any new translations to the website. The ones currently present basically had a developer or administrative team member sponsor them and is about the only reason they are currently present, otherwise you would probably see only two or three translation sets.
1) Heh. Granted, it's been months, so you may not recall it even more. I'm talking about this: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=12925&start=15#p107289

2)Well, it may be pointless in as far as being unable/unwilling to do something about it, but the user interface still sucks regardless. ;) I'm not sure if one really needs to customise it with manual code, btw. Aren't there different modules for Drupal? Where you can already use the code from. It would be surprising if nothing better existed than this kind of translation-editing.

3)Not sure if this was generic or specifically to me (I'm well aware that not all of my posts are equally appreciated by some devs), but I think it's important to make a distinction between posts on the forum, and making a translation. The one is a matter of free speech on a forum where the purpose is debating stuff and where I say my thoughts as I see it, while the other is simply a job - work to be done on the pages of the site. I think most of us are professionals, here, even if we disagree on some topics. The job of translating the site should just be evaluated as such, thus: did someone do a good job in translating, technically and content-wise? All the rest doesn't really matter; a professional, even as a volunteer, separates personal feelings from a job that needs to be done.

4)Is there any additional reason why no extra translations are allowed? Or is it purely a matter of too much work for the dev/PR? You speak of 2-3 languages at most, but in essence, I would think the more the merrier, if you want an as broad as possible exposition to the public at large. Again, if it's 'resources' (which what the sponsoring means I guess, because there sure hasn't been any financial sponsoring :lol: ) that is the only problem, than this refers back to the bad way things work in that section. If one would adopt something where one can finetune 'rights' better, this wouldn't be a problem anymore neither. You could just give someone the privilege of translating in a certain language (nothing more, nothing less: when translating in one language, one doesn't need it in another, after all), but *with* publishing rights.

Also... are you sure it doesn't auto-reset, sometimes? Or it resets after doing something (update?) to the system? There have been times where I was pretty sure I set some pages ready for review/publish, only to note after a (long) while, they were back at the draft stage. But anyway, as said, I think I've done most of the pages that were available to me, so it's not an issue anymore. There is still the main page, and I would like to do the blog entries too, but I just can't do that, due to the system. Or the (limited) allowed rights I have gotten. Or both.

Again, I understand the lack of time with IGG and all that, but as the parent poster has shown, it's quite easy to get the impression help isn't really wanted, this way.

crackez
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Greek translation

Post by crackez » Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:31 pm

vicmarcal wrote:Hi crackez!
Who did you send emails?
For sure I didnt receive any from you. Since one year ago we are using a new Drupal website, so inactive translators at that time has lost his access. If you want to translate, you've to request access again (we moved from our own CMS to Drupal and a counterback was this issue).
Sorry if noone has answered you, however for me this is the first time I heard of your issue, and we'll try to fix asap.
Thanks for reporting!
To be honest I tried irc, emails and no forum(:P). What about confirmation? I mean we need some Greeks that are trustworthy so we can publish material asap
Webunny wrote:
Z98 wrote:1) I see nothing in the review queue from you right now.

2) We use drupal as the CMS so coming to us to complain about the user interface is a tad pointless, there's nothing we can do about it short of writing custom code and that is not something we're willing to commit the resources to.

3) Maintainer access still has too much power in drupal for us to be willing to grant it to people whose judgment we have issues with. Until we can put together a more locked down permissions scheme, we will be extremely selective of whom we grant maintainer access to.

As regarding crackez's questions, a search through my inbox shows an unread email from about a year ago that looks like it slipped through the cracks. Generally if you do not get at least a pingback from me within a week, it means that your email got buried and you'll want to try again. Due to work and other projects, my inbox grows at the rate of around ~50 emails each day. Victor also tends to be faster in responding.

Finally for translations, at this point the project will not be adding any new translations to the website. The ones currently present basically had a developer or administrative team member sponsor them and is about the only reason they are currently present, otherwise you would probably see only two or three translation sets.
1) Heh. Granted, it's been months, so you may not recall it even more. I'm talking about this: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=12925&start=15#p107289

2)Well, it may be pointless in as far as being unable/unwilling to do something about it, but the user interface still sucks regardless. ;) I'm not sure if one really needs to customise it with manual code, btw. Aren't there different modules for Drupal? Where you can already use the code from. It would be surprising if nothing better existed than this kind of translation-editing.

3)Not sure if this was generic or specifically to me (I'm well aware that not all of my posts are equally appreciated by some devs), but I think it's important to make a distinction between posts on the forum, and making a translation. The one is a matter of free speech on a forum where the purpose is debating stuff and where I say my thoughts as I see it, while the other is simply a job - work to be done on the pages of the site. I think most of us are professionals, here, even if we disagree on some topics. The job of translating the site should just be evaluated as such, thus: did someone do a good job in translating, technically and content-wise? All the rest doesn't really matter; a professional, even as a volunteer, separates personal feelings from a job that needs to be done.

4)Is there any additional reason why no extra translations are allowed? Or is it purely a matter of too much work for the dev/PR? You speak of 2-3 languages at most, but in essence, I would think the more the merrier, if you want an as broad as possible exposition to the public at large. Again, if it's 'resources' (which what the sponsoring means I guess, because there sure hasn't been any financial sponsoring :lol: ) that is the only problem, than this refers back to the bad way things work in that section. If one would adopt something where one can finetune 'rights' better, this wouldn't be a problem anymore neither. You could just give someone the privilege of translating in a certain language (nothing more, nothing less: when translating in one language, one doesn't need it in another, after all), but *with* publishing rights.

Also... are you sure it doesn't auto-reset, sometimes? Or it resets after doing something (update?) to the system? There have been times where I was pretty sure I set some pages ready for review/publish, only to note after a (long) while, they were back at the draft stage. But anyway, as said, I think I've done most of the pages that were available to me, so it's not an issue anymore. There is still the main page, and I would like to do the blog entries too, but I just can't do that, due to the system. Or the (limited) allowed rights I have gotten. Or both.

Again, I understand the lack of time with IGG and all that, but as the parent poster has shown, it's quite easy to get the impression help isn't really wanted, this way.
Guys look, I've spend 5 years of my life in the U.K. as a university student where I got my degree, I'm Greek what else would someone want for a translator? I mean I've seen things that some Greeks might not(if they don't get out of the country). True I don't hold any degree in English and never had before going to the U.K. ..I was just good(..I thought at least :lol: - Things were pretty different when I went to the U.K., that's where I saw that my English actually suck, as I was North of England the accent was a bit blur. Anyway my level of English is at academic level although a bit rusty as I'm not using English daily. I prefer to translate free-style as it make more sense to Greeks rather than text-by-text translation like a robot)

So who do I kill to gain access? ahahahhah (kidding of course - for legal purposes)

vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2732
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by vicmarcal » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:39 pm

crackez wrote: To be honest I tried irc, emails and no forum(:P).
Emails to who?
Image

Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by Webunny » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:09 pm

vicmarcal wrote:
crackez wrote: To be honest I tried irc, emails and no forum(:P).
Emails to who?
"As regarding crackez's questions, a search through my inbox shows an unread email from about a year ago that looks like it slipped through the cracks."

At least one to z98, it would seem. General ROS emailaddress, is my guess?

Z98
Release Engineer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 8:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Greek translation

Post by Z98 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:37 pm

@Webunny, which issue are you referring to specifically, you ask multiple questions in that post. Also, re permissions, language maintainers have too much access to all content, until we can lock it down so that you can only make changes to your own language, I am not granting maintainer status to anyone beyond specific individuals that I trust, most of whom are part of the formal ReactOS team.

@crackez, the issue is not whether you can be trusted as a translator, the issue is whether we want to have any Greek translations at all. Each new translation set means an additional set of content that might need to be manually moved if we have another site migration, which is actually very possible if the drupal modules we use do not provide a clean upgrade to drupal 8. If you feel that strongly about having Greek present, then here's the deal. If we ever do another manual migration, you will be responsible for getting the Greek content migrated over, with the understanding that if you do not perform the migration, the content will get dropped.

justincase
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by justincase » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:00 pm

Z98 wrote:1) I see nothing in the review queue from you right now.
Webunny wrote:1) Heh. Granted, it's been months, so you may not recall it even more. I'm talking about this: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=12925&start=15#p107289
Webunny, he's looking at the queue in the CMS, so whatever changes you were talking about in that thread either got lost, or got changed to ... something that doesn't show up where Z98 can review and/or accept it. Check your ... submitted items, and your drafts (I'm unsure of the terminology cause I don't have access to that portion of the CMS) and see if you need to resubmit your newer version or ... something.
Z98 wrote:@crackez, ... If we ever do another manual migration, you will be responsible for getting the Greek content migrated over, with the understanding that if you do not perform the migration, the content will get dropped.
I know my opinion doesn't really mean much in this conversation, but I think that's a perfectly reasonable deal.

Good Luck. :mrgreen:

(btw what is the purpose of "mrgreen"?)
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by Webunny » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:59 am

justincase wrote:
Z98 wrote:1) I see nothing in the review queue from you right now.
Webunny wrote:1) Heh. Granted, it's been months, so you may not recall it even more. I'm talking about this: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=12925&start=15#p107289
Webunny, he's looking at the queue in the CMS, so whatever changes you were talking about in that thread either got lost, or got changed to ... something that doesn't show up where Z98 can review and/or accept it. Check your ... submitted items, and your drafts (I'm unsure of the terminology cause I don't have access to that portion of the CMS) and see if you need to resubmit your newer version or ... something.
Z98 wrote:@crackez, ... If we ever do another manual migration, you will be responsible for getting the Greek content migrated over, with the understanding that if you do not perform the migration, the content will get dropped.
I know my opinion doesn't really mean much in this conversation, but I think that's a perfectly reasonable deal.

Good Luck. :mrgreen:

(btw what is the purpose of "mrgreen"?)
I made several pm's about it back then, so it should be clear to the PR guys what I mean.

There are several questions indeed, but not too many answered. ;-) Regardless, the main point is, that the webpage on the MAIN page should be renewed (I've made a new draft to review there months ago), and then there is still the matter of the translation of the sidebar, where there is no translate button, so I don't even know how to start the translation of it (there is an edit button, but I still don't know if I should use that, because normally, one shouldn't).

Anyway... it's still right after the IGG, and I think z98 and vic still have better things to do in the aftermath of that. I've been waiting for 4-5 months, another week won't matter. I'm not trying to be unreasonable or petulant here, it was just a reminder to look at those issues once things clear a bit up after the IGG thing settles down.

As for the potential migration: that seems reasonable to me. In fact, if that upgrade improves the edit/translation/right system, I'm all for it.

Z98
Release Engineer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 8:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Greek translation

Post by Z98 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:14 am

Again, I see NO draft texts from you. If you did create one, you did not set it to a review state. If it's not set in a review state, I do not see it.

Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by Webunny » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:08 pm

Z98 wrote:Again, I see NO draft texts from you. If you did create one, you did not set it to a review state. If it's not set in a review state, I do not see it.
z98...I've explained this extensively in the past...

For the past pages where you (well, I) *could* translate with the translate button, I have done so. Yes, that is with the draft/review option in the drop-down menu. As said, I think I got all of the ones that I could do that way (there doesn't seem to get an easy way to get an overview of the untranslated pages neither, with the current system, so I'm not sure).

For the specific issue I am talking now, however - and which was my main points during the past xx posts + pm I made about it - I'm talking about the MAIN page. Aka, the one you get when you go to https://www.reactos.org/nl.

There IS NO 'translate' button/tab there, remember? So neither is there a way to (re)make a draft and set it on 'review', at least not in the same way as with all the other pages. This is true for the main page itself, as well for the sidebar at the left under 'navigation'. Last time, you gave me a link to it in pm, remember? Well, it's there that I made a new one too, and - several months ago - I DID place the moderation state at 'Needs Review' with my last, updated version of that main page, I'm sure about that. If it's nowhere to be found, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

I guess I could (re)make it for a 4th time, but that page (the mainpage) is a real pain in the ass for that; I can't just edit it, or go from the original text that is already there, no, I have to create a completely new draft/text. There is no 'edit' tab or button there, even if you already made a translated text, contrary to the 'normal' pages that one can translate.
Last edited by Webunny on Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

crackez
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Greek translation

Post by crackez » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:53 pm

Z98 wrote:Again, I see NO draft texts from you. If you did create one, you did not set it to a review state. If it's not set in a review state, I do not see it.
Last time I've translated something was at least 3 years ago but I did save the drafts, I don't remember a review state though. There was a greek fellow which was suppose to confirm them but it was in the army at the time(Greek army is mentantory and is 9 months now), he replied to me by e-mail

I've translated at least 10 webpages if not more(some of them were huge)

Z98
Release Engineer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 8:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Greek translation

Post by Z98 » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:30 pm

That wasn't aimed at you. Read up higher for my response to you.

As far as menu translation goes, the translators buggered that up pretty badly and at this point no new menu translations are happening until it gets cleaned up. For translating main page content, you have to remember that they are actual pages themselves. So https://www.reactos.org/reactos-project is the text for the main page. Translations are rooted from there.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest