Why is it taking so long?

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happy1460
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Why is it taking so long?

Post by happy1460 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:47 pm

I think I will be dead by the time this OS is ready. I'm using XP. I love it. But Microsoft is dropping us. I hate Windows 7 with a passion. And Linux is plain and ancient looking. So I'll keep using XP. But what I really want to know is what is Reactos OS goal. I first thought it was going to be like XP/2000. Now I think the developers are dropping that design goal. And moving on to Windows 7 the pig. Maybe that's why it's taking long. They can't decide which OS to use as a blueprint. I rather they stay with 2000/XP. I hate Windows 7. The start menu is so useless. Please don't change to 7. People can use that OS for a long time. XP is the system that is getting the boot from Microsoft. And there are a lot of people who love XP, including me. Thank you. Sorry about being rude. I just hate this XP Doomsday bashing by a lot of websites. :?

vicmarcal
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by vicmarcal » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:39 pm

Nope. We are not moving to Windows 7.
Don't worry :)
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karlexceed
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by karlexceed » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:49 pm

happy1460 wrote:And Linux is plain and ancient looking.
Really? I think Ubuntu looks great. Ditto for ElementaryOS. I feel like you haven't looked very far.

As to your point, yes, there has been a bit of a moving target that the devs are going after, but it's really about compatability more than looks or start menu functionality. The current 'look' of ReactOS is really along the lines of Server 2003, which is basically identical to XP, so don't worry there.

And as for time, well... How many people do you think it took to make XP? How long? And they had the head start of having already made a few Windows'. Not to mention they were full-time employees... So unless you know C and want to contribute or donate some money to hire devs, it's really pretty unfair for you to complain about it taking too long. I suppose you will expect to download and install ReactOS for free when it's "done"?

Sorry if I sound rude. ;)

Webunny
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Webunny » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:42 pm

karlexceed wrote:
happy1460 wrote:And Linux is plain and ancient looking.
Really? I think Ubuntu looks great. Ditto for ElementaryOS. I feel like you haven't looked very far.

As to your point, yes, there has been a bit of a moving target that the devs are going after, but it's really about compatability more than looks or start menu functionality. The current 'look' of ReactOS is really along the lines of Server 2003, which is basically identical to XP, so don't worry there.

And as for time, well... How many people do you think it took to make XP? How long? And they had the head start of having already made a few Windows'. Not to mention they were full-time employees... So unless you know C and want to contribute or donate some money to hire devs, it's really pretty unfair for you to complain about it taking too long. I suppose you will expect to download and install ReactOS for free when it's "done"?

Sorry if I sound rude. ;)
Well, objectively spoken, the parent poster is right: it DID take us a very long time, and we're still in alpha stage.

But, as you said, that's fully understandable, seeing our resources both in human and monetary aspects (certainly compared to MS). But I'm not sure he meant any offense. It's just an objective observation; 10-20 years to get to beta-stage IS long. That said, given the constraints, it's a pretty amazing feat nevertheless. If I look at the very first builds I tried, and the 0.3.16 one, there is already a huge improvement noticeable.

As for the XP/win7 thing: I personally like win7. At least more than I like win 8. I also think it naturally to shift your focus on to next Windows-iterations, though I would have thought that only starting after we first completed it as 100% XP clone. In fact, didn't z98 and I had a discussion about this very same topic, where he said win7 was way too much changed to just for that, or something? Or something about how difficult it is starting from scratch to winXP vs from XP to win7. Seem to remember a discussion like that.

Anyway, I agree: win7 (or more) enhanced compatibility is enough for now, it can remain having the look of XP: there is nothing basically wrong with it, after all.

DOSGuy
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by DOSGuy » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:45 pm

happy1460 wrote:I hate Windows 7 with a passion.
Most people love Windows 7 with a passion. I found the transition from XP to 7 to be extremely easy, and the only thing I had to give up was Windows XP's awesome search UI. On the rare occasions when I wanted or needed to use XP in the early days after the change, I used Windows XP Mode. I can understand hating Windows 8, but Windows 7 is basically the same as Windows XP, only shinier. I don't think I've ever met anyone who regrets upgrading to 7, but to each his own.
happy1460 wrote:But what I really want to know is what is Reactos OS goal. I first thought it was going to be like XP/2000. Now I think the developers are dropping that design goal. And moving on to Windows 7 the pig. Maybe that's why it's taking long. They can't decide which OS to use as a blueprint.
Nope. The target is Windows 2003, which is NT 5, just like XP. Why it's taking so long is because barely more than a dozen volunteer developers are trying to recreate -- in their spare time -- an operating system that was developed by several thousand full-time paid developers, with no knowledge of any of the code. It would be like if a group of hobbyists decided to recreate the Apollo program using only publicly available blueprints and specs. So yes, it's taken a long time and it's going to take a lot longer. ReactOS will not be a suitable replacement for Windows XP before Microsoft drops support for XP.

But good news! Windows XP won't stop working on April 8! There will be no new security patches, but Windows XP is already ten times less secure than Windows 7 and 8 anyway. If you like it, keep using it. But seriously, consider upgrading to Windows 7. If you prefer the look and feel of Windows XP, use a Windows XP theme.
Today entirely the maniac there is no excuse with the article. Get free DOS, Windows and OS/2 games at RGB Classic Games.

PurpleGurl
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by PurpleGurl » Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:48 pm

vicmarcal wrote:Nope. We are not moving to Windows 7.
Don't worry :)
Even if we did, there would likely be distributions and all. Being open source is good as it gives more room for individuality. And if a space alien wanted to use it with a telepathy module instead of a keyboard and mouse, they could, though they would likely have to rewrite the HID support and make it AID (Alien Interface Device) instead... ;-)

I really have nothing against Windows 7, though the start menu takes a while to get used to. I just use the classic theme and have made various changes to make it more like XP. One Windows 7 explorer feature I like is being able to move the task bar items around. I don't see why that cannot be incorporated into our explorer new (if not already). That is purely cosmetic and shouldn't rely on deeper changes (unless I am mistaken). Another 7 feature I like is the ability to pin icons. The show desktop toggle is neat too, though I don't use it much. I am more used to doing it using the desktop toolbar. That was added with XP, I think, though it existed as a 95/98 "power toy" for a long time.

mametoc
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by mametoc » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:30 am

happy1460 wrote:I think I will be dead by the time this OS is ready. I'm using XP. I love it. But Microsoft is dropping us. I hate Windows 7 with a passion. And Linux is plain and ancient looking. So I'll keep using XP. But what I really want to know is what is Reactos OS goal. I first thought it was going to be like XP/2000. Now I think the developers are dropping that design goal. And moving on to Windows 7 the pig. Maybe that's why it's taking long. They can't decide which OS to use as a blueprint. I rather they stay with 2000/XP. I hate Windows 7. The start menu is so useless. Please don't change to 7. People can use that OS for a long time. XP is the system that is getting the boot from Microsoft. And there are a lot of people who love XP, including me. Thank you. Sorry about being rude. I just hate this XP Doomsday bashing by a lot of websites. :?
Don't tell me you are using XP x86 in a PC x64, please...

The thing is at what point software developers will stopped to do XP compatible apps, example: Google anounced "Chrome" browser XP compatible +1 year after MS ends XP support (no more Chrome for XP in april 2015).

Webunny
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Webunny » Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:53 am

mametoc wrote:
happy1460 wrote:I think I will be dead by the time this OS is ready. I'm using XP. I love it. But Microsoft is dropping us. I hate Windows 7 with a passion. And Linux is plain and ancient looking. So I'll keep using XP. But what I really want to know is what is Reactos OS goal. I first thought it was going to be like XP/2000. Now I think the developers are dropping that design goal. And moving on to Windows 7 the pig. Maybe that's why it's taking long. They can't decide which OS to use as a blueprint. I rather they stay with 2000/XP. I hate Windows 7. The start menu is so useless. Please don't change to 7. People can use that OS for a long time. XP is the system that is getting the boot from Microsoft. And there are a lot of people who love XP, including me. Thank you. Sorry about being rude. I just hate this XP Doomsday bashing by a lot of websites. :?
Don't tell me you are using XP x86 in a PC x64, please...

The thing is at what point software developers will stopped to do XP compatible apps, example: Google anounced "Chrome" browser XP compatible +1 year after MS ends XP support (no more Chrome for XP in april 2015).
True. Sooner or later, ROS will HAVE to go beyond the 2003/XP goal. I would strongly suggest setting the next goal to win7, when the time comes. As for the one after that; we'll see.

Z98
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Z98 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:22 am

Or we could go for 8 without the braindead UI for desktops.

mametoc
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by mametoc » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:55 pm

Webunny wrote:True. Sooner or later, ROS will HAVE to go beyond the 2003/XP goal. I would strongly suggest setting the next goal to win7, when the time comes. As for the one after that; we'll see.
Well WIndows 7/Windows Server 2012 seems too much ambitous by now, isn't?, why not Windows Server 2008/Vista? (i know Vista as a co-goal can generate very bad PR).

Anyway whit a new goal... the drivers think seems will be a mess what generate some questions as: No longer progress whit XP/2003 drivers to get run on ReactOS?, all driver target turns to 2008/Vista? that's the end way for some very old hardware to run next ReactOS target whitout Vista/2008 or later drivers?. Probably there are more thinks (not related to drivers) i don't know but the next target seems to me a monstrous jump what might even justify change the name "ReactOS" to other, to avoid confusion.

erkinalp
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by erkinalp » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:01 pm

Z98 wrote:braindead UI for desktops.
The opponents against GNOME use the exact same objection for GNOME 3 desktop :mrgreen:
Well WIndows 7/Windows Server 2012 seems too much ambitous by now, isn't?, why not Windows Server 2008/Vista? (i know Vista as a co-goal can generate very bad PR).
Windows 7 has equivalent embedded versions like Windows XP has(Windows CE 4 and Windows FLP for NT5.x, Windows Compact and Windows Thin PC for NT6.x), Windows Vista does not. So it will be an incomplete target when we extend our target architectures into non-x86 and/or embedded/functionally-limited devices.
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Black_Fox
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Black_Fox » Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:49 pm

mametoc wrote:Anyway whit a new goal...
Just don't forget that there is no new goal right now, nor will be in near future :-)

mametoc
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by mametoc » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:19 pm

erkinalp wrote:
Z98 wrote:braindead UI for desktops.
The opponents against GNOME use the exact same objection for GNOME 3 desktop :mrgreen:
Well WIndows 7/Windows Server 2012 seems too much ambitous by now, isn't?, why not Windows Server 2008/Vista? (i know Vista as a co-goal can generate very bad PR).
Windows 7 has equivalent embedded versions like Windows XP has(Windows CE 4 and Windows FLP for NT5.x, Windows Compact and Windows Thin PC for NT6.x), Windows Vista does not. So it will be an incomplete target when we extend our target architectures into non-x86 and/or embedded/functionally-limited devices.
But can explain why you ommited http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vi ... ed_Systems and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Embedded_CE_6.0 there are not Vista equivalents?.

mametoc
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by mametoc » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:26 pm

Black_Fox wrote:
mametoc wrote:Anyway whit a new goal...
Just don't forget that there is no new goal right now, nor will be in near future :-)
By "near future" how many time do you mean?, months, one year, two years...?.

Z98
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Re: Why is it taking so long?

Post by Z98 » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:37 pm

You do realize that whatever Black_Fox said would only be speculation? Seeing as he's not a developer?

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