Form another partnership

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serialjoepsycho
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Form another partnership

Post by serialjoepsycho » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:27 am

There is another project that has the same goals as reactos. Green Gnomes goal is as follows:

"The main goal of the GreenGnome project is to provide an operating system which is binary compatible with Windows. This will allow your Windows applications and drivers to run as they would on your Windows system. Additionally, the look and feel of the Gnome desktop environment is used. The ultimate goal of GreenGnome is to allow you to remove Windows and install GreenGnome." They have thus far made the shell. At the moment it's just a shell that can replace the windows shell. Now I know that react os already has a shell and I'm not suggesting that you use their shell. What I am suggesting that react os form a partnership. Where your goals differ is that you want to make a free windows compatible operating system that has the look and feel of windows and they want to make a free windows compatible operating system that has the look and feel of gnome. Essentially when react os is completed the greengnome shell should work with react os and they will still be developing their os. Now if you form a partnership with them you will launch their os ahead by many steps and then they can essentially jump in and help you get ahead. In the end they get what they want and you get what you want. if nothing else please look at their site and perhaps test their shell. Thanks for your consideration.

jgwright
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by jgwright » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:17 pm

Hum, it's about one week too late to be an April Fool caper - however I did google it and check the Wikipedia page to see when this started. Seems they pay ReactOS great compliments - the website is almost 100% copy - even down to the half-assed roadmap.

Wikipedia article only received any attention on the day it was created - I'm surprised the deletion-Nazis haven't found it yet.

Forget GreenGnome. :roll:

vicmarcal
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by vicmarcal » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:19 pm

Hi,
I have been testing GreenGnome some months ago. Currently it is just a Shell.
I think calling that an OS is quite...uhmm...quite generous.It is just a Shell to replace XP shell or ReactOS shell.
Btw, the GreenGnome shell is not running on ReactOS, we miss some of the "Hooks" code needed to run it. I think this is the reason that explain why GG project has not created (YET) a ReactOS+GreenShell download and renamed it to "GreenGnome OS".
And yes, I think that a project that copies our Site(just changing the blue to green) and doesnt contact us or doesnt offer a partnership or whatever is a little bit unpolite.
An OS is a mix of hundred/thousands files.A Shell can be done with 10 files.
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serialjoepsycho
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by serialjoepsycho » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:49 pm

Green gnome is just a shell. They say it is just a shell on their front page. They aren't saying that it is currently an operating system. That would be like Stallman calling gnu with the hurd kernel a working modern operating system. "GreenGnome is a free, modern desktop environment for Windows XP. Written completely from scratch, it aims to become the first Windows like operative system and follow the Windows architecture designed by Microsoft from the hardware level right through to the application level. This is not a Unixlike based system (as GNU/Linux)." They are saying it's a shell. On wiki it is listed as a shell. React os wasn't the first to come up with the idea of a windows compatible os and it damn sure won't be the last. There is the possibility that they just simply haven't heard of react os. The shell they have obviously was developed for windows xp. If they wanted to hijack react os code they could have worked real hard to make it compatible with react os. Everything else is trivial. Crappy roadmap. I've seen a couple of other free os that have crappy roadmaps. It's not mutual exclusive to reactos. When did Microsoft start talking about Longhorn? What was the big delay? Did you use Vista? Did you notice how crappy it was? Did you notice how it was nothing like it was earlier described? It is something for the project leaders to consider and it wouldn't be hard to find out if they were ripping off reactos but it would require more than reading a website created by those not fluent in English.


vicmarcal
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by vicmarcal » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:12 am

Sorry, but i am not agree with some of your sentences.Maybe you should try to make a deeper research:
serialjoepsycho wrote:They aren't saying that it is currently an operating system.
Well, if i dont read incorrectly:Under the "Green Gnome Desktop Environment" string in the front page you can find the next string:
GreenGnome OS Project
#1: I think that O-S means Operating System.So i still say that calling OS to a Shell is a little bit...pretentious.
serialjoepsycho wrote:They are saying it's a shell.
Answer1: GOTO #1
Or: "The main goal of the GreenGnome project is to provide an operating system which is binary compatible with Windows"
Sorry?They are saying they want to create an Operating System.Or maybe my bad english isnt good enough to understand this sentence.
Or: "The ultimate goal of GreenGnome is to allow you to remove Windows and install GreenGnome."
Uhmm Windows is not a shell. So they are stating they want to create an OS. And sorry, an OS doesnt begin with a Shell. Check when ReactOS added the shell to the OS.Creating a Shell to create an OS is beginning the House from the Roof.
serialjoepsycho wrote:React os wasn't the first to come up with the idea of a windows compatible os and it damn sure won't be the last.
Sure. And I can tell you other possibilities to run Windows apps: wine+Linux,Linux Unified Kernel,and a commercial one called TMAX.
We dont have any issues about having more GPL people creating Windows code.
serialjoepsycho wrote:There is the possibility that they just simply haven't heard of react os
When someone begins with a project, the first step is knowing the land that is under his feet.Same when someone tries to defend something that is almost non defendible at all.
But now another hint.Check these two paragraphs and find the differences:
greenGnome Webpage wrote:"GreenGnome is a free, moderndesktop environment for Windows XP. Written completely from scratch, it aims to become the first Windows like operative system and follow the Windows architecture designed by Microsoft from the hardware level right through to the application level. This is not a Unixlike based system (as GNU/Linux)."
reactos webpage wrote:"ReactOS® is a free, modern operating system based on the design of Windows® XP/2003. Written completely from scratch, it aims to follow the Windows-NT® architecture designed by Microsoft from the hardware level right through to the application level. This is not a Linux based system, and shares none of the unix architecture. "
They are quite lucky,they havent heard about us,and surprisingly they have written the same WORDS one after the other.Quite lucky guys.
But follow with the game please and find the differences between these other two:
greenGnome Webpage wrote:"The main goal of the GreenGnome project is to provide an operating system which is binary compatible with Windows. This will allow your Windows applications and drivers to run as they would on your Windows system. Additionally, the look and feel of the Gnome desktop environment is used. The ultimate goal of GreenGnome is to allow you to remove Windows and install GreenGnome."
reactos webpage wrote:"The main goal of the ReactOS project is to provide an operating system which is binary compatible with Windows. This will allow your Windows applications and drivers to run as they would on your Windows system. Additionally, the look and feel of the Windows operating system is used, such that people accustomed to the familiar user interface of Windows® would find using ReactOS straightforward. The ultimate goal of ReactOS is to allow you to remove Windows® and install ReactOS without the end user noticing the change."
You can check who created the Webpage first.If you have any doubts.
PS: Did you notice the Left MENU in his homepage and our Left MENU in our homepage?Wow.They seem to be horribly lucky. They have the same Left Menu.Wow.And all with out having heard about us.And of course without having seen our webpage.And the pigs fly in the sky.
serialjoepsycho wrote:If they wanted to hijack react os code
There isnt any possible Hijacking. Our code is GPL,anyone can use it following,of course, the GPL rules.

I am quite dissapointed not because using our code(they aren´t btw, LUK is using it and we are quite happy) but because copying our webpage layout, because stating something that is wrong(an OS?),and copying our sentences.
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serialjoepsycho
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by serialjoepsycho » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:07 am

I'm sorry I wasn't aware that your understanding of English is poor. GreenGnomes ultimate project goal is to be an os. They aren't calling what they have now an os. They arern't saying what they have now is an os. They are saying if and when their project is completed it will be an OS. They have named their os and they have started working on one part of their OS. Richard Stallman wanted to make the GNU os. He named it and he started working on one part of it. Right now his kernel is incomplete. Linus Torvald made a kernel and used the other parts of the GNU os to develop linux. Reactos is the spin off of a previous os attempt. Freedows and alliance os where 2 failed attempts at making a windows compatible os. E/os has similar goals.

ReactOS is not very known. The idea to make a windows compatible free os is not very new. The possibilities of others starting a similar project is not that out there. The possibility that others might make a similar OS with no knowledge of react os is possible.

serialjoepsycho
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:04 am

Re: Form another partnership

Post by serialjoepsycho » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:23 am

"I am quite disappointed not because using our code(they aren´t btw, LUK is using it and we are quite happy) but because copying our webpage layout, because stating something that is wrong(an OS?),and copying our sentences."

Your website layout isn't unique. What is wrong with stating your goals. They aren't stating they have anything more than a Desktop shell. Does that part confuse you? Should they not have a goal? ReactOs has a goal. It seems fairly common that any open source project have goals. You know.. Something to strive for or work to....

I can't in good face say they ripped anything off of here. Now when they release their code if it uses this code it will be fairly clear but until such time...

EmuandCo
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by EmuandCo » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:05 pm

1. They dont "steal" just our Site Design, then copied all texts and just replaced ReactOS with their name.
2. No Double Posting.
3. ReactOS is no spinoff off anything!
4. vicmarcal is a quite skilled English speaker, so telling he just does not get it because he cant read it is no solution. His arguments are all valid.
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ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

jgwright
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 10:44 am

Re: Form another partnership

Post by jgwright » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:17 pm

@EmuandCo

> "4. vicmarcal is a quite skilled English speaker, so telling he just does not get it because he cant read it is no solution. His arguments are all valid."

If you're referring to "I'm sorry I wasn't aware that your understanding of English is poor." then serialjoepsycho was most probably referencing:

> "Or maybe my bad english isnt good enough to understand this sentence."

... from vicmarcal's post.

And what's the comment re double posting about?

jgwright
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by jgwright » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:21 pm

regarding the word 'spinoff', i quote Wikipedia
ReactOS (React Operating System) is an open source computer operating system intended to be binary compatible with application software and device drivers made for Microsoft Windows NT versions 5.x and up (Windows 2000 and its successors). A spin off of a previous attempt to clone Windows 95, development started in early 1998, and has continued with the incremental addition of features already found in Windows.
This article is lovingly tended by one of the regulars here.

Hope i'm not double-posting.

EmuandCo
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by EmuandCo » Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:49 pm

Yes you did double posting and I know it was on purpose.
vicmarcal's comment was more of a joke to show that its written everywhere that's an OS.
And wikipedia is wrong, as always. Time to fix that. Getting the arwinss comments in shape was a pain already and now that.
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ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

vicmarcal
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by vicmarcal » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:45 pm

serialjoepsycho wrote: Right now his kernel is incomplete.
I am quite glad to have a lot of GPL/BSD projects using ReactOS code or recreating a Windows clone.Maybe ReactOS can reuse some of their code, as they do with ours.
But GreenGnome project hasnt code ANY OWN LINE related to kernel.At least Stallman did(incomplete,but did).If you can point me to any code of GreenGnome related to Kernel,related to the OS itself and not just to the Shell, i will very glad to check those lines.

serialjoepsycho wrote: What is wrong with stating your goals. They aren't stating they have anything more than a Desktop shell. Does that part confuse you? Should they not have a goal?
ReactOS goal is to create a compatible OS, and we are coding OSes files,slowly but creating.And again, a XP Shell is something that you can find in the Net quite easily, so it is not a must in a project who wants to code an OS.
If any Shell project(there are tons) states that they want to create an OS and just creates a Shell and zero lines about the OS itself, they should try to check their goals.
serialjoepsycho wrote: Your website layout isn't unique.
Sorry?A website layout is UNIQUE, there is something called Copyright about it.So you cant copy a design without asking the designers first.Of course you can take ideas from here or there.But not COPYPASTING the content,COPYPASTING the layout,etc...indeed if the layout is a GPL layout.
Btw, i dont know if our Website design is under GPL.Maybe it doesnt.And of course Greengnome didnt ask us about using our layout.


I can't in good face say they ripped anything off of here. Now when they release their code if it uses this code it will be fairly clear but until such time...
Do you want to place a Bet?You will lose it.
The Bet is: "The day that ReactOS code is able to load external shells,GreenGnome project will take ReactOScode,they will substitute ReactOS explorer with GreenGnome explorer and call this thing GreenGnomeOS(of course if they didnt forget about ReactOS)"
They have copied our site, why aren´t they going to use our GPL code?

And the best, I dont mind if they do it (always following the GPL rules), but it will be a little bit unfair to call themselves GreenGnomeOS.
Does KDE call itself KDE-OS or just call themselves a Desktop Environment? Does GNOME project call themselves GNOME-OS?


The last thing. I am not a native english speaker,neither an english writer, but i can understand perfectly anything written in a site.
[irony]I can indeed compare two sites and find the Copypasting.[/irony]
Maybe your skills to understand irony written in English arent good enough, or maybe i have to try it harder.But meanwhile i will use the [irony] tag.
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Z98
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by Z98 » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:14 pm

This discussion is getting a bit out of hand and there's a few misconceptions being thrown around, so let's get them cleared up first.

The layout of the ROS site itself is actually part of the RosCMS, which I believe is released under the GPL. So them using it or a derivative of it isn't technically that much of a problem. They are also perfectly free to take our code and use it under the terms of the GPL. We released the code under the GPL for that reason, after all. However, the contents of the site, a decent percentage of which I have had a hand in writing and editing, is not something they are free to rip off and use, which they seem to have done so in their description of what their thing is, simply replacing the word ReactOS with their thing's name. This is blatant violation of IP law, or more specifically copyright law in this instance. So why exactly would we want to associate with people who do not respect the intellectual property of others in this manner? We have very strict standards about what can be included in this project to make sure we respect the IP of others. We are aware of the exceptions that the project can use, but we are also aware of the things where the matter is very black and white. So if this GreenGnome or whatever project wants to be taken seriously or be considered credible, they'll have to clean up their act in regard to their blatant copying of our text. And as one of the people responsible for maintaining the site's content, I am not open to establishing any "partnership" with someone who does not respect my copyrights and I doubt the rest of the developers feel any differently.

Remialdo
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Re: Form another partnership

Post by Remialdo » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:47 pm

From his Facebook page:
"First of all what isn't Green Gnome:

* Green Gnome isn't Gnome but an indipendent software write from scratch that is similar to Gnome
* Green Gnome don't run under GNU/Linux but run under Windows
* Green Gnome isn't an operative system but an operative enviroment and have need of Windows

So what is Green Gnome :

* Green Gnome is an operative enviroment as alternative to Windows and it is 100% compatible with Windows, under GreenGnome you can run every software that tipically you can use under Windows"

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