It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
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Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
EmuandCo or hto - Please Just Lock This Thread, People Need to understand that releases will be published when they are ready, not when they start wining about though their own ignorance toward ReactOS.
Wesley Howard
ROS Contributor - Web Developer
ROS Contributor - Web Developer
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
Well I don't think it's going to get locked. I think I've read 3 threads where thats been requested today. Version numbers have no meaning at the moment. Apart from the milestones to be completed. Which I'm happy with. To release version faster they would be required to do more work. Which really can't be asked when they do it for free.
Though thinking about the 0.7% of your salary comment. That's $300. I don't think I would get anything for my money. Dev's wouldn't work harder. At the moment no one can be employed full time. It would take 100 donations of decent money to employ someone on a bad wage. I mean it could contribute to hosting costs. Any advertising really isn't suitable at the moment.
I actually know nothing about how much the reactos foundation has. How much it needs to speed up development. or where the money goes. Maybe this should be considered? I mean it might take 2 or more years to raise $50000 enough to employ someone full time . Though it would still speed things up. If I could see where my money was going and the progress of the donations. I would be much more willing to donate.
Though thinking about the 0.7% of your salary comment. That's $300. I don't think I would get anything for my money. Dev's wouldn't work harder. At the moment no one can be employed full time. It would take 100 donations of decent money to employ someone on a bad wage. I mean it could contribute to hosting costs. Any advertising really isn't suitable at the moment.
I actually know nothing about how much the reactos foundation has. How much it needs to speed up development. or where the money goes. Maybe this should be considered? I mean it might take 2 or more years to raise $50000 enough to employ someone full time . Though it would still speed things up. If I could see where my money was going and the progress of the donations. I would be much more willing to donate.
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Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
I never meant that. Sorry if I offended you.if you don't like the direction this project is taking, go find something else better to do with your time than whining.
Indian developers could be hired for much less.I mean it might take 2 or more years to raise $50000 enough to employ someone full time
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
I understand your impatience but ROS will never see day light as you expect. It's just a hobby for the dev's.
You just have to decide if you want to follow their pace and improvements or find another project to put some pressure on.
WINE needed 15 years to reach an controverse version 1.0. There is no Canonical, Microsoft, Sun, Novell or Red Hat behind the scene...
BR
Cutty.
You just have to decide if you want to follow their pace and improvements or find another project to put some pressure on.
WINE needed 15 years to reach an controverse version 1.0. There is no Canonical, Microsoft, Sun, Novell or Red Hat behind the scene...
BR
Cutty.
- EmuandCo
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Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
15 years to start from 0, yes. We can use quite some code from them, dont forget that!
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.
If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
Well just compare our approximate number of developers and the number of 93.000 MS employees in over 100 countries (2009).Dany0 wrote: [...] What's the problem, you know I didn't watch it last year or two, but again
It's just the nowhere it's going with this tempo. I just dunno, is it really so hard & complex that it can't be done in 2 months?
Just ignore or delete this if I am wrong, you understand, I just don't know much things and search gives no results....
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
You know what? Your number of developers is not so bad, actually, what shall I say - bravo! The true question is: How can it be _increased_?
Indeed, I would be interested in what you have to suggest about that.
I believe a good organisation with some discipline would largely enhance the "snowball effect". So, suppose you need to finance them: please let us look at the link for donations, in particular wire transfer, under http://www.reactos.org/de/foundation_donate.html. From what I read in the web about Christoph von Wittich, apparently he is a very respectable person, engaging in the development of ReactOS with big efforts. - But he is a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL! Would you wire money for Linux to Linus PERSONALLY?
Or maybe you would like to have serious correspondence with ReactOS? On NO promiment place is there a real-world-address! http://www.reactos.org/de/contact.html is just insufficient!
Please try to see it with the eyes of a corporate employee: You find that project interesting and want to tell your boss. And WHAT will you tell him? "There is this project without postal address, so sorry I cannot tell you it, and I suggest we donate money. Well, we either have to find out how PayPal works, yeah, I know we never ever used it, or we can just donate to this guy, Christoph, but believe me, he is VERY reliable."
So, please say: WHO is "ReactOS". Is it a church? Is it a corporation? Is it a foundation? Is it a... ?
Other question, how do people even HEAR of ReactOS? I mean, I searched quite a while a few years ago before, by chance, I first saw it. So, what marketing is there?
As to the number of MS employees, a lot of them are working on Office, Exchange, some maybe even on Zune, a good part are just nice secretaries... I do not think ReactOS is hopeless.
Indeed, I would be interested in what you have to suggest about that.
I believe a good organisation with some discipline would largely enhance the "snowball effect". So, suppose you need to finance them: please let us look at the link for donations, in particular wire transfer, under http://www.reactos.org/de/foundation_donate.html. From what I read in the web about Christoph von Wittich, apparently he is a very respectable person, engaging in the development of ReactOS with big efforts. - But he is a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL! Would you wire money for Linux to Linus PERSONALLY?
Or maybe you would like to have serious correspondence with ReactOS? On NO promiment place is there a real-world-address! http://www.reactos.org/de/contact.html is just insufficient!
Please try to see it with the eyes of a corporate employee: You find that project interesting and want to tell your boss. And WHAT will you tell him? "There is this project without postal address, so sorry I cannot tell you it, and I suggest we donate money. Well, we either have to find out how PayPal works, yeah, I know we never ever used it, or we can just donate to this guy, Christoph, but believe me, he is VERY reliable."
So, please say: WHO is "ReactOS". Is it a church? Is it a corporation? Is it a foundation? Is it a... ?
Other question, how do people even HEAR of ReactOS? I mean, I searched quite a while a few years ago before, by chance, I first saw it. So, what marketing is there?
As to the number of MS employees, a lot of them are working on Office, Exchange, some maybe even on Zune, a good part are just nice secretaries... I do not think ReactOS is hopeless.
- EmuandCo
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Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
Noone said its hopeless. But more devs would be cool, yes.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.
If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
florian,
Microsoft has many developers (you mentioned 93.000 MS employees), but compare the size of Windows and ReactOS. Vast community of developers in large companies can't clean the sources as ROS developers did (do).
Maybe, big ROS developers community = messy code. In any case, I suppose ReactOS developers will write something that we all will be proud of.
Microsoft has many developers (you mentioned 93.000 MS employees), but compare the size of Windows and ReactOS. Vast community of developers in large companies can't clean the sources as ROS developers did (do).
Maybe, big ROS developers community = messy code. In any case, I suppose ReactOS developers will write something that we all will be proud of.
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Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
No not you. Dany0.cmoibenlepro wrote:I never meant that. Sorry if I offended you.if you don't like the direction this project is taking, go find something else better to do with your time than whining.
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
Of course and I know that not all MS employees are developers but I wanted to illustrate that we can`t compare ReactOS (and its process of development) with the Microsoft Corporation - as they have better ressources in terms of money, developers and other employees.Aeneas wrote:As to the number of MS employees, a lot of them are working on Office, Exchange, some maybe even on Zune, a good part are just nice secretaries... I do not think ReactOS is hopeless.
Due to my lack of knowledge I cant judge the correlation between the quality of sourcecode and quantity of developers. Shouldn't be that rather a question of development skills and quality (manangement)?Yaraslau wrote:florian,
Microsoft has many developers (you mentioned 93.000 MS employees), but compare the size of Windows and ReactOS. Vast community of developers in large companies can't clean the sources as ROS developers did (do).
Maybe, big ROS developers community = messy code. In any case, I suppose ReactOS developers will write something that we all will be proud of.
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
That's a good question. Unfortunately I can't answer it as I have never developed an approach to increase the number of our developer. But I'm gonna try to give you a short and certainly incomplete overview of what have been thought, discussed and partly done.Aeneas wrote:You know what? Your number of developers is not so bad, actually, what shall I say - bravo! The true question is: How can it be _increased_?
Indeed, I would be interested in what you have to suggest about that.
- I guess that our developers are going from door to door in order to get releases, reviews and interviews published in competent communities (ReactOS: Colin Fink im Interview) or specialised press (Chip.de - ReactOS).
- Developers participated at fosdem 2009. Compare the article on gulli.com (again German language).
- Then there was the idea of developing or strengthening the contacts with universities and students by vicmarcal and wildschwein.
- Some people claim a better organisation and documentation. Here you can find a current example.
- Furthermore you and I could use those banners / signatures in foreign forums. I like them.
- Others thought of an additional PR-team. But I don't know whether there is such a team or not.
- Your criticism of our insufficient contact page and your proposal of a real postal ReactOS adress is a good point to my mind. It should be changed.
- Last but not least - and in order to get back to our topic - frequent releases of ReactOS are demanded very often.
Well, we might continue and deepen these ideas but coordinating and implemting is a time consuming task...
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
Well not really,they love more the coding than the PR(there are exceptions as always), that´s why i suggested the PR team .Finding interviews is a task consume action which i (personally) prefer they use it for coding that for finding.Of course after finding an interview they are the best to explain how this project works,but that is the last step of PR and not so much time consuming.florian wrote: - I guess that our developers are going from door to door in order to get releases, reviews and interviews published in competent communities (ReactOS: Colin Fink im Interview) or specialised press (Chip.de - ReactOS).
Btw,little by little some events contacts directly with us (like Imaginatica 2009 placed in Seville,Spain) which means our efforts are having results.
And on 25th Octuber there is going to be another meeting in Italy, in which ReactOS will have a quite nice representation
There is a small-non-official ReactOS PR-Team. Small because not so much people has PR skills, or want to develop their PR skills.And Non-official since there isnt any statement which says we are official. We are working in the Darkness finding events or creating blogs(and sharing the news among us) to give more Info (from the User point of view) which complements the Technical (and quite valuable info) of the Newsletters.florian wrote:
- Others thought of an additional PR-team. But I don't know whether there is such a team or not.
Soon some ideas of this non-official PR Team will have results in the ReactOS Official site.
This was one of the first proposal from the Non-official PR Team. I had discovered that was quite difficult to contact with Open Source projects(for congratulating the Finalist projects in the Sourceforge Community Choice Awards), and i discovered that we were failing in the same point. Same thing happened on December when Imaginatica tried to contact us, and they didnt find any Contact email(maybe they could have given a look in the footage, but it is not obvious) so they contacted through an old developer which forwarded the email to our Dev-ML.florian wrote: - Your criticism of our insufficient contact page and your proposal of a real postal ReactOS adress is a good point to my mind. It should be changed.
I talked this with Fireball and seems in our new site a Contact tab is going to be present.
I don't kidnapp more this Thread, but if anyone wants to help in PR, he/she can contact with me through a PM. Or via: vmartinez(heregoes an @]reactos.org
Helping on PR can mean: Criticism,Suggestions,Help,Blogging,anything which will help the relation with Users,with Events,and with Developers. You dont need Coding skills to help in this way.
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
regarding Deadlines & Releases
Next time some tourist asks these kind of questions give them this. And give them my condolences for their unhappiness over the ReactOS project.
For a (somewhat theoretical) background of how open source works from a project prespective, I'd recommend reading:
The Cathedral and the Bazaar, Homesteading the Noosphere, and The Magic Cauldron by Eric Raymond.
Homesteading - Chapter: Gift Outcompetes Exchange
.
Next time some tourist asks these kind of questions give them this. And give them my condolences for their unhappiness over the ReactOS project.
For a (somewhat theoretical) background of how open source works from a project prespective, I'd recommend reading:
The Cathedral and the Bazaar, Homesteading the Noosphere, and The Magic Cauldron by Eric Raymond.
Homesteading - Chapter: Gift Outcompetes Exchange
Indeed, it seems the prescription for highest software productivity is almost a Zen paradox;
if you want the most efficient production, you must give up trying to make programmers produce.
Handle their subsistence, give them their heads, and forget about deadlines. To a conventional manager this sounds crazily indulgent and doomed—but it is exactly the recipe with which the open-source culture is now clobbering its competition.
.
Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?
I agree deadlines are especially bad when not paying someone. You can not expect to push someone when they are doing something for free. The word deadlines is very harsh. Planning doesn't mean pushing people. It is simply some foresight. If you don't estimate times and dependencies for a project you can't budget and do cost/profits. so times aren't that important for volunteer work.
Though the best thing about planning can be morale. If done right.
I did one project just being handed tasks after completing a task. I just tried churning them out. not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Not very enjoyable. I hated it and everyone did.
On the next project there was an online todo list and when completed a tick would appear next to it and showed percent complete. Everyone found it much more enjoyable.
So project management isn't bad. It can just be done bad.
This project is very hard. Bugzilla is cluttered with bugs. Which of course can't even be addressed for a long time. Rather overwhelming. I tried to find patches people submitted it was imposable. I don't know how devs can do it.
I think we just have not reached "critical mass". When we get enough people, the current systems have been proven(mediawiki,bugzilla,appdb(winedb except ours is better ))
Though the best thing about planning can be morale. If done right.
I did one project just being handed tasks after completing a task. I just tried churning them out. not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Not very enjoyable. I hated it and everyone did.
On the next project there was an online todo list and when completed a tick would appear next to it and showed percent complete. Everyone found it much more enjoyable.
So project management isn't bad. It can just be done bad.
This project is very hard. Bugzilla is cluttered with bugs. Which of course can't even be addressed for a long time. Rather overwhelming. I tried to find patches people submitted it was imposable. I don't know how devs can do it.
I think we just have not reached "critical mass". When we get enough people, the current systems have been proven(mediawiki,bugzilla,appdb(winedb except ours is better ))
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