Which NTFS Versions to support initially?

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TwoTailedFox
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Which NTFS Versions to support initially?

Post by TwoTailedFox » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:01 pm

I looked on the Wiki, and saw that NTFS read/write support is planned for later releases.

Version.. 1.4?... Is included with Windows NT 4.0, but that had now become somewhat depreceated.

Windows 2000 and Windows XP Support NTFS 3.0, and 3.1 Respectively. Would these not be a better implementation route than NT4's NTFS?

chorns
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None

Post by chorns » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:44 pm

Nobody is currently working on NTFS support.

oiaohm
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NTFS read/write support is planned for later releases.

Post by oiaohm » Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:53 am

Yep it is planned and is also dependant on another project

Ntfs-linux is the ntfs support for linux when it get read-write we will basicly.

Reading has not been much of a problem the standard linux NTFS driver does that well. The writing is the trick. They are working on it and are getting closer and closer.

Now for read-write support at first I guess people will pull a captive use MS own driver ie 3.1.

Please note there is not documentation on how NTFS works. This provides major problems it has been all worked out the hard way. So write support takes alot of time.

We would be better off looking for another filesystem to do the job that has documentation it would be quicker. Where does it say that a windows os has to have NTFS. Just something that can trick programs that it has would be enough.

niteice
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Post by niteice » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:52 am

Once driver compatibility is reached, it should be effortless to support just about any filesystem. Just a little code needs to be added to the boot process before the driver is loaded.

Hmm, it would be nifty to modify the boot process such that FS drivers are loaded first, so as not to crap out on an INACCESSIBLE_BOOT_DEVICE. Unless it already does this?

Delfi
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Post by Delfi » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:25 pm

who needs ntfs? use fat32 and you can rescue things from dos when it collapses ;)

TwoTailedFox
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Re: NTFS read/write support is planned for later releases.

Post by TwoTailedFox » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:42 pm

oiaohm wrote:Where does it say that a windows os has to have NTFS. Just something that can trick programs that it has would be enough.
Well, the ReactOS Goal is to create an OS that is based off of WinNT. NTFS is an integral part of WinNT, and is indeed needed for compatibility with existing Windows Installations.

Not to mention that NTFS has support for very large volumes.

e7
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Post by e7 » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:08 pm

Why we net NTFS? We can use ext2/3, Reiser, Be's filesystem and many other... NTFS is a simple filesystem, the future are database-filesystems...

cuppm
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Post by cuppm » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:39 pm

I'm feeling a bit deja vuish...

http://reactos.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=408

oiaohm
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Opps now let this die. This the basic outcome.

Post by oiaohm » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:23 am

Yep I was in the last fight too.

Only reason why any other filesystem than NTFS is that NTFS does not have complete documentation so writing to it will always be a risk ie new version of windows writes and reads slightly differently to reactos major stuffup.

Note when you install a newer version of a Microsoft NTFS supporting OS it updates all the ntfs.sys drivers in all other Microsoft NTFS supporting OS's it finds. It does not tell you that and can cause big problems if you go to reinstall a older version of ntfs. Note Windows OS will not detect reactos so will not update the driver.

The unfixable problem we have to use microsoft driver to be sure that we are compad for write this can never ship with reactos. Best is compad to a partical version max installed only. Yep they can play merry hell with us with updates.

Note NTFS has no features that other filesystems don't have or cannot emulate to partical filesystem.

Ie we could be better off creating our own documented filesystem than using NTFS due to lack of docs on how it works.

I am hope to get a change to dig threw the new freeldr and see if I can cut it back and convert to a standard mulitboot with modules to let reactos boot on any filesystem it supports.(ie no filesystem access required to start reactos copy the parts into grub loader boot part to start reactos and grub loads them into memory where freeldr sorts it out) Or use a tool to wrap the multiboot into a bzimage(a linux image) and boot that on anylinux bootloader.

Basicly that is where the fight went nuts when a open hand apears every one was saying this filesystem is better than that one. When really they were all good in there own ways.

jeremyk
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Post by jeremyk » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:01 am

why not just use the converter to convert from fat32 to ntfs?

ScoTTie
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Post by ScoTTie » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:46 am

e7 wrote:Why we net NTFS? We can use ext2/3, Reiser, Be's filesystem and many other... NTFS is a simple filesystem, the future are database-filesystems...
Its all about compatability, how are people with windows on an NTFS drive supposed to change to an open source alternative without going through the pain staking process of backing everything up/formatting and copying all the data back..

Dont forget ReacOS's aim is to be compatible with windows..

forart
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Post by forart » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:30 am

I know i'm boring, but OpenBFS rockz
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mf
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Re: Opps now let this die. This the basic outcome.

Post by mf » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:02 pm

oiaohm wrote:Note Windows OS will not detect reactos so will not update the driver.
Last time I heard it does, at least Recovery console, which lets you log into ReactOS from WinXP setup :).

AcetoliNe
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Post by AcetoliNe » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:42 pm

Saying NTFS is not needed is rubbish.

Here is what I have to say to people who don't want ntfs support: You have either been living on a remote island, or you are completely oblivious to the computer industry.

I will express this in four short sentences, which I do not deem to difficult to understand.

Check stats. Almost all OS installations are Windows. And all consumer brand PCs come preinstalled with Windows.
Almost everybody nowadays has either Win2K or WinXP on their computer.
The default file system for these OSes is NTFS.
NTFS cannot easily be converted to FAT.

And if you're saying FAT should be the default filesystem for ros, then you're crazier than I thought.
Open-source filesystems (ext3, reiserfs, etc...) are not a bad idea, it's just a problem of compatiblity. There are completely different security systems in Windows and Linux.

Nevertheless, a utility which allows conversion of NTFS to other filesystems would not be a bad idea. I'd really love NTFS->ReiserFS. And, given the fact that NTFS read is supported, I don't think this is very hard to acheive.
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Stead
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Post by Stead » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:51 pm

i see that some people are against ntfs, however, howabout just using hte microsoft driver, is that allowed? as the people who have ntfs on there computers are more than likely to be using windows, if reactos is 100% binary compatable with drivers i can't see how using it could be such an issue, then people who don't have windows, or refuse to accept ntfs isn't 100% bad evil etc don't use it.

ntfs dos used the windows ntfs driver if i remember correctly

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