[22:56] <aicom> Why will 0.3.5 suck?
[22:57] <@Z98> he says this for every release
[22:57] * aicom also recalls him saying this for 0.3.4
[22:58] <encoded|lap_> too many promises, too many bugs
[22:58] <aicom> That's why we're alpha
[22:58] <encoded|lap_> ok we got some cool things this release, but we also got a lot of bugs
[22:59] <aicom> What are some major ones?
[22:59] * @Z98 wonders how much of it is due to bugs and how much of it is due to just incomplete and missing stuff
[22:59] <encoded|lap_> its due to lack of testing actually
[23:00] <encoded|lap_> no one cares, no one complaings, no one knows
[23:00] <@Z98> Lurkey needs to complain more
[23:00] <encoded|lap_> we got 3,000 bugs in bugzilla? for 10 years worth of bugs ?
[23:00] <aicom> encoded cares, encoded complains, things happen
[23:01] <encoded|lap_> i do, i try.
[23:01] * +Alex_Ionescu just fixed like the entire ERESOURCE package
[23:01] <+Alex_Ionescu> it was such a broken POS
[23:01] <@Z98> patch?
[23:02] * aicom thinks that 0.3.6 should be a bug fix release
[23:02] <encoded|lap_> then our bug reports are: "icon not shown correctly in $CrapApp"
[23:02] <aicom> Not many new features just fixes
[23:02] <+Russell> Alex_Ionescu: I asked fireball but he is still on holiday :'(
[23:02] <encoded|lap_> instead of: "ERESOURCE COMPLETLY BROKEN"
[23:02] <+Russell> about NoCc
[23:02] <aicom> 3+ drivers broken
[23:02] <+oiaohm> Ok that is low encoded|lap_
[23:03] <+oiaohm> wine has over 3000 open bugs.
[23:03] <aicom> Lock ups and restarts loading ntoskrnl...
[23:03] <aicom> countless other bugs
[23:03] <aicom> I think we need to get more hw support
[23:04] <encoded|lap_> yeah
[23:04] <aicom> ROS only runs on 2/5 computers. My old laptop and one of my desktops
[23:05] <aicom> My new laptop locks up loading ntoskrnl and my new desktop reboots while loading drivers
[23:05] <+oiaohm> http://www.freeipa.org/page/Roadmap << Anyone else thing last bit of Release 2 could be open to abuse here.
[23:05] <encoded|lap_> but we dont need "ros bugchecks on my laptop amd 3800, 1GB ram"
[23:05] <encoded|lap_> we need huge logs
[23:05] <encoded|lap_> with huge amounts of info
[23:05] <aicom> and even if it boots, the VGA driver is broken so no intel i810 support
[23:06] <aicom> or any other VESA 2.0 incompatible card
[23:06] <encoded|lap_> bug report?
[23:06] <encoded|lap_> who else knows this?
[23:06] <encoded|lap_> i didnt
[23:06] <encoded|lap_> (or did i...)
[23:07] <@Z98> it's known
[23:07] <@Z98> just GreatLord is too busy working on other stuff
[23:07] <@Z98> to fix it
[23:07] <aicom> actually counting VGA thats 4 broken drivers (isapnp, floppy, acpi, vga)
[23:07] <encoded|lap_> proof that its broken? list of known good adapters?
[23:08] <@Z98> check the forum
[23:08] <@Z98> GreatLord made a post
[23:08] <encoded|lap_> if this were a linux distro we would have that
[23:08] <encoded|lap_> list of known good bullshit
[23:09] <encoded|lap_> i remember seeing them all over in the 90s
[23:09] <+Russell> good quality lies and bad quality truths
[23:09] <+oiaohm> They still exist
[23:10] <+oiaohm> And they still just as trust worthy as ever.
[23:10] <aicom> I think that getting ReactOS to work on more hardware is better than implementing features because most people don't want to go through the hastle of downloading an emulator so they can run ROS. They just want to throw in a livecd on some real hardware and start running ReactOS
[23:10] <+oiaohm> First ros has to run stablity
[23:10] <+oiaohm> Then worry about hardware.
[23:10] <aicom> First it has to run period
[23:11] <+oiaohm> Ie run stabliy on a emulator.
[23:13] <+oiaohm> Note encoded|lap_ MS has a list of known good hardware too.
[23:13] <+oiaohm> Its not just a linux thing.
[23:13] <encoded|lap_> yeah
[23:13] <aicom> I'm not saying implement every thing. I just want to be able to use it.
[23:13] <encoded|lap_> so there you go
[23:14] <+oiaohm> And as with all lists of know good hardware.
[23:14] <+oiaohm> Some hardware gets on it that don't work anymore.
[23:15] <encoded|lap_> its not really for users
[23:16] <encoded|lap_> (not like we have any of those)
[23:17] <+oiaohm> We do have a developer that runs a web server off it from time to time.
[23:17] <+oiaohm> So that would kinda count as 1.
[23:17] <aicom> It would be a big help for driver testing for it to run on real hw
[23:17] <encoded|lap_> its for devs, and testers. its a list of work actually. "this list shall not be broken.", "You should try to fix it on those that dont work."
[23:18] <aicom> It's bad when hardware support drops from release to release
[23:18] <+oiaohm> Now if internals are unstable aicom
[23:18] <+oiaohm> how would you know if it was driver failure or ros issue.
[23:18] <encoded|lap_> its, of course, a ros issue
[23:19] <encoded|lap_> and i count our drivers as part of ros
[23:19] <aicom> oiaohm: run the driver on windows
[23:19] <encoded|lap_> we have to be big enough to atleast make OUR code work
[23:19] <+oiaohm> Now what version of windows to be sure aicom
[23:19] <aicom> XP I guess
[23:20] <+oiaohm> Nop
[23:20] <encoded|lap_> we have alot of it...
[23:20] <+oiaohm> 2003 is the closet windows for internal layout.
[23:20] <encoded|lap_> forget windows, thats not part of my rant
[23:21] <+oiaohm> Now next problem who here has 2003 aicom
[23:21] <aicom> I still think we should have a bug fix release, even if it doesn't involve hardware support. Anyone agree?
[23:21] <encoded|lap_> forget that
[23:21] <encoded|lap_> FORGET WINDOWS
[23:21] <encoded|lap_> i'm talking about ros
[23:22] <encoded|lap_> we have to see this as a process
[23:22] <encoded|lap_> there is work that needs to be done
[23:22] <encoded|lap_> that work needs to be managed
[23:22] <encoded|lap_> i'm think of this like, people are worker threads and ros foundation or whatever is a process
[23:23] <encoded|lap_> a process of making an OS that doesnt suck!
[23:23] <encoded|lap_> i'm thinking... we need more structure.
[23:23] <aicom> As ReactOS progresses, more features are added and thus more bugs created and it becomes time for a time of bug fixing
[23:24] <+SamB> is this a ritual of deep spiritual significance?
[23:24] <aicom> lol
[23:24] <encoded|lap_> SamB, yes
[23:24] <+oiaohm> Basically the simplest way it get it stable in a virtual machine with the least ammount of hardware aicom
[23:24] <encoded|lap_> I wish we had maintainers
[23:25] <+oiaohm> Then when it plays up with a driver you can be more sure where the bug is.
[23:25] <encoded|lap_> I wish we had people volunteering to winetest
[23:25] <encoded|lap_> I wish we had people volunteering to test hardware
[23:25] <encoded|lap_> I wish we had people volunteering to write patches
[23:25] <aicom> oiaohm: I agree but my question is: Bug fix release or not?
[23:25] <encoded|lap_> instead of telling us how cool linux is, like oiaohm
[23:25] <encoded|lap_> lol
[23:26] <aicom> encoded|lap_: We need some people to go through the bugs and find what is testable and what isn't
[23:27] <+oiaohm> I could mention the upcoming kvm.sf.net feature that will enable you to added real devices 1 at a time to ros and keep the rest running in the virtual machine.
[23:27] <encoded|lap_> someone should go to reactos.org and make some sort of system to manage this
[23:28] <encoded|lap_> like posted things that need work
[23:28] <encoded|lap_> that devs or others can post
[23:28] <encoded|lap_> like confirming bugs
[23:28] <encoded|lap_> like testing patches
[23:29] <encoded|lap_> i'm gonna post this on the forum and make an uproar.
[23:29] <encoded|lap_> lol, bbl
