Fundraiser is controversial...

[.aart3k]

Ok, before flame war will take place here:

Let's just say that donations are going to hw like servers, regression testing etc.
It's developing anyway, so it helps ROS to get stable.
Expos like Linux World are mainly developer-took and IT specs places so presenting there ROS as GPLed advanced OS based on Windows (like GNU is based on Unix) will help gaining more developers and get ROS stable.

So we can honesly say that we are not promoting ROS, we're trying to speed up it's developement.
And as you said before, Note: stable and complete OS will promote itself by his own.

[nute]

With the reassurances from developers that donations will speed development, I hope others can at least match the $5 donation
I made a while back.

On the subject of coding without reverse engineering, what possibilities
are there for me in this project?

[EmuandCo]

Anything you want. Code drivers, fix bugs, file bugs, add features, etc etc. There is so much to do that it is still called Alpha Stadium, I'm sure you'll find something that needs some work.

[Jaix]

With the reassurances from developers that donations will speed development, I hope others can at least match the $5 donation
I made a while back.

On the subject of coding without reverse engineering, what possibilities
are there for me in this project?

nute, I'm glad your'e getting what we are trying to say. We have worked over ten years to come this far, thinking about the modest resources we have this is really impressive. However ten years is a long time and all of us would like to see ROS stable and fast. We realize ROS does not promote itself until it's stable, but we need developers now, that's why we try to promote ROS not to the masses byt to potential devs.
If you would like to help you could start by bug fixing so ROS will get some stability.

[FORCE]

I almost every day try to promote reactos with my methods and this is my current donation. Example if someday i could win with lottery million then at least i donate half to reactos. Our future is ReactOS.

[nute]

No I am not just about money. Americans are not just about money
anymore than the average German, African, Eqyptian, the French,
etcetera are.

There have been some inappropriate blanket statements about me
and Americans in general in the fundraising controversy thread. I
am writing to politely ask people to stop this activity.

What is dirty reverse engineering? Reverse engineering is a scientific
process whereby you take something apart, one example, to figure out
how it works. If you have trade secrets, why not protect them by not
mentioning them in your public API's and ABI's? Is developing to an
API that is publicly available and trying to test out your work using a proprietary product it is based on legal? You can't claim compatability without figuring out if in fact your implementation of a particular library etcetera works with the software that is out there.

A very important question, how accurate is the public documentation
on Windows NT's APIs and ABIs? Where the public documents are
wrong, I've heard a lot of complaints that Visual Studio's documentation
is flat wrong in places, what is the net effect?

Are inaccuracies in the public information on Windows a major
contributor to the difficulty developers are running into getting
0.3.1 out? With all it's problems, 0.3.0 to me at least seems
to be pretty impressive. I wasn't expecting major problems
to come up.

The fundraising campaign is a request for a certain amount of money.
And yes, we should all be convinced that donations are needed.



A side opinion, please be responsible and please don't flame:

As far as Americans thinking everything is driven by money, we
wouldn't be in Iraq if we did. The war is hardly making us rich
where no amount of money alone thrown at anyone in that region
will bring about reconciliation. The World Trade Center was
destroyed because of hatred, not for monetary gain. It is hatred
and threats to family that drive foreign fighters and suicide
bombers into Iraq to kill not just Americans, but Iraqis and others
as well. You can't pay terrorists off and you can't just ignore them
either. I wish Germany, France, and Russia would reinforce the
alliance so that Iraq can move on already.

[EmuandCo]

I want to say sorry if my post was a bit Anti American. It no secret that I'm no friend of fanatic americans and your Politics (your President, especially ) Sometimes I write stuff which is a bit too generalized regarding Americans. Most are OK, I know.

[Sirmatto]

Ok, nute, I am also an American and I have to say your comments have definitely been side stepped from the fundraising topic, are mostly false and I'm about to become a hypocrite: Of course Iraq is for money, look at the companies making huge profits at the expense of us paying money and lives in it. And nobody wants to join the 'alliance' because of this reason and more. And the terrorists don't just hate us because they are naturally angry at us, we've done quite a few things to piss them off. Now please, stop embarrassing me and any fellow Americans on this board and get back on the topic of fundraising, if you have anything more to say.

[florian]

Nute, I wanted to write something but words fail me. And even being upset (because of recognized anti-americanism or whatever) please don' t react to harsh for instance by provoking.

A side opinion, please be responsible and please don't flame

Instead of a long comment I ignore your political side opinion because you might be pissed and furthermore because it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. Therefore please be responsible and do not write such controversial political stuff anymore.

nute, I'm glad your'e getting what we are trying to say.

I am glad,too, that in terms of ReactOS you're developing a better understanding and even donate five dollars.

[Z98]

What is dirty reverse engineering? Reverse engineering is a scientific
process whereby you take something apart, one example, to figure out
how it works. If you have trade secrets, why not protect them by not
mentioning them in your public API's and ABI's? Is developing to an
API that is publicly available and trying to test out your work using a proprietary product it is based on legal? You can't claim compatability without figuring out if in fact your implementation of a particular library etcetera works with the software that is out there.

A very important question, how accurate is the public documentation
on Windows NT's APIs and ABIs? Where the public documents are
wrong, I've heard a lot of complaints that Visual Studio's documentation
is flat wrong in places, what is the net effect?

Are inaccuracies in the public information on Windows a major
contributor to the difficulty developers are running into getting
0.3.1 out? With all it's problems, 0.3.0 to me at least seems
to be pretty impressive. I wasn't expecting major problems
to come up.

Yes, reverse engineering is a research method. However, there are limits as to what it can be used for. By law, reverse engineering something so that you can copy it is going to get you into trouble. You may be violating anything from the EULA to certain laws protecting trade secrets to copyright infringement. Microsoft does not need to hide anything in order to protect it. The law itself protects them well enough.

Reverse engineering is a research tool. It can be used to produce documentation and to teach. However, in the US, if you reverse engineer a product to sell it or produce a competing product, which is what ROS is, you will be breaking the law. Copying code is a copyright infringement, because Microsoft has a copyright on that code, and that code by itself can be considered a trade secret. If the ROS devs directly reverse engineered something, Microsoft could do serious damage to the project and its reputation by forcing a court battle, something which the ROS Foundation does not have the resources to fight.

The problems in the current release are as far as I know at the kernel level and have little to do with the API subsystems. The information that Microsoft releases about the NT kernel are nowhere near as extensive as it is about the win32 API. The devs have basically relied upon published documentation by Microsoft and other third parties in order to write the kernel, and that by itself is extremely difficult to do. The kernel is also the most sensitive area legally, which is why they have to step so carefully.