New Subsystem Ideas

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GvG
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Re: Hmmm....

Post by GvG » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:07 pm

Harteex wrote: Ah it's the linux attitude?... a really nice one.
soo... you mean that the devs shouldn't care at all what the users wish to have?
Because if it's open source, let the user program it themselves even though they have never programmed before. Because technically it's possible for them to go learn and spend some years on fixing it themselves... woo...

If I develop an application I'm always interested in hearing what the users of the application wish to have.
So am I (and I think most of the ReactOS devs). However, there's so much to do and so little time to do it in... One of the nice things about volunteer projects is that at least you get to choose what you want to work on yourself. Personaly, when making those choices I do keep an eye on what other people want. Requests from other devs get a higher priority, followed by requests from users "in the ReactOS community", i.e. users who are actively involved in some way or another (perhaps by testing, creating art/graphics, working on the website etc.) People just dropping by telling me/us "you should do this" have a high propability of being ignored when choosing what I want to work on.

uniQ
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Post by uniQ » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:08 pm

HUMA2000 wrote:If you have read anything about the new upcoming windows xp 64, you will know that Ms have droped the 16 bit support for it OS,
I've been told somewhere (Possily here) that they still retain parts of it for running the 16bit InstallShield installers for things like Office 97.

-uniQ
Coming on, coming up, let me help ROS and I'll be able to look @ a life well used.

Phalanx
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Post by Phalanx » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:03 pm

uniQ wrote:
HUMA2000 wrote:If you have read anything about the new upcoming windows xp 64, you will know that Ms have droped the 16 bit support for it OS,
I've been told somewhere (Possily here) that they still retain parts of it for running the 16bit InstallShield installers for things like Office 97.
The RC1 has the 16bit section removed (as far as I have been told, or it is disabled). I am sure they really don't want to support office 97 from working. They already have a registry setting in XP SP2 that upsets the office 97 install making it fail if you do not change it.

Linuxhippy
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Hmmm

Post by Linuxhippy » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:57 pm

Ah it's the linux attitude?... a really nice one.
soo... you mean that the devs shouldn't care at all what the users wish to have?
Because if it's open source, let the user program it themselves even though they have never programmed before.
No, thats not the point. The point is that currently development is focused on making basic stuff working instead of implemnting everything 50% and totally buggy.
Because technically it's possible for them to go learn and spend some years on fixing it themselves... woo...
Ahh, so developers working on reactos have years for working on this.

Speaking about OSS in general:
Blabla isn't worth very much - Code is all and everything.
If no one of the developers is interrested in implementing a subsystems no one would do it - even if many users want to have it. Maybe someone does implement it for users - but not for his fun or interrest.

Why does nobody start a win16 subsystems fond, where everybody hows interrested in development could spend some $ - not much just what its personally worth.
This would help underemployed devs help to get their budget done and I am sure you would be happy how fast development would go on - even if so many people which want to have this feature done cannot program.

This also has another good site: Here you can see how important this really is, posting for something is quite easy - if others have the work and pain.
If you have to spend some money it really has to be personally of interrest for you.

lg Clemens

Wierd
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Post by Wierd » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:06 pm

I seem to recall Steven mentioning something about wanting to institute a bounty system... THis would be a good thing to put a bounty on. Course, it would have to be broken up between the devs that would be involved, as an entire subsystem would take more than just one developer to implement... THis would mean a fairly sizeable bounty would be required.

However, untill Steven's lawyer buddy gets off his can, and gets the ball rolling on those non-profit papers.... ......


(It isnt a good idea for ReactOS foundation to be accepting and distributing funds without non-profit status first.... Taxes and all.)

Floyd
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sub systems i consider important

Post by Floyd » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:32 am

1. win32 (naturally)
2. win64
3. win16/DOS
4. linux

-> NT has limited support of posix and OS2 and so would be nice for backwards compatibility but in this day and age probably would not be essential and (just as a guess) wouldn't a linux subsystem inherently have some posix support in it?
pax mei amici amorque et Iesus sacret omnia

AcetoliNe
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Post by AcetoliNe » Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:41 pm

DOS - can be done through pc-emulators (maybe adopted to ros). Much easier and also works - highest performance not really needed for most dos apps.
Emulation? you're kidding, right? Have you ever actually used an emulator before? I have about 30-40 DOS progs on my computer, and I've only succesfully run 6 of them on emulators. On the other hand, the DOS subsystem on windows can run most of them. Emulators have a long (repeat with me: LONG) way to go.
Win16 - Will decrease more and more in useage - not really important even today

Irix - Funny joke ;)
Assumptions. Invasiveness. You remind of a company I know called Microsoft.
Blabla isn't worth very much - Code is all and everything.
I get it now. So, what people want from your program is blabla? When people are interested in your prog, and only want to see it get better, that's blabla? When people may save thousands of dollars in expenses if you just spend one night coding, that's blabla?

I'm quite glad that the reactos devs are not people like you. They actually LISTEN to what people want.

Pour yourself a mug of hot chocolate. And remember, we do not sport penguins.
caveman LIKES chocolate.
we shall reinvent the wheel until it turns properly.

alb2550
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Post by alb2550 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:13 pm

If you were going to make a Macintosh subsystem you wouldn't emulate any hardware, just Implement the Macintosh Toolbox which is the basis for the OS and the software that runs on it. It would be similar to how the Basilisk II emulator works, except it wouldn't be emulation.
(remember I'm talking about 68k macs)

DocPheniX
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Post by DocPheniX » Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:46 pm

ok you guys seem to be getting a bit off topic here. please go back and read the initial question again.
implemented for ros after the w32 api is completed
this is the main thing im concerned about and im possitive the devs agree with me on this one .. subsystems are simply an afterthought. :twisted:

Mollyzkoubou
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OTOH

Post by Mollyzkoubou » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:49 pm

Personally, I believe a DOS subsystem would be quite important, since I run lots of DOS apps on Windows 2000 and did also on 98SE.

Perhaps it would be better to work from FreeDOS and DOSEMU, which virtualizes, rather than DOSBOX, which emulates.

Moll.

frik85
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Post by frik85 » Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:12 pm

HUMA2000 wrote:If you have read anything about the new upcoming windows xp 64, you will know that Ms have droped the 16 bit support for it OS, so, 16 bits installer will be ported to 32 bits soon I hope, anyway, a 16bits windwos subsystem must be implemented.
In WinXP 64-bit (x64 edition) the wow64 has special code to make reference to certain well known 16-bit installer work (MS ACME Setup 2.6 and 3.x; InstallShield 5.x). Whenever a 16-bit process is about to be created the Ntvdm64.dll check the exe file (if the it is one of the supported 16-bit installers).
-> It launch the 32-bit part of the installer with the same command line arguments.
:wink:

Jaix
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New subsystem ideas...

Post by Jaix » Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:21 pm

Wouldn't it be wonderful to have:

XBox
PS 1 & 2
c64
Mame
Amiga
Atari ST
and many others.

as subsystems?

uniQ
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Re: New subsystem ideas...

Post by uniQ » Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:42 pm

Jaix wrote:XBox
Hmm, we have a "port" to this now, so... how hard is it to go form port :arrow: subsystem?

-Q

PS. Not suggesting this be done now...
Coming on, coming up, let me help ROS and I'll be able to look @ a life well used.

Lucio Diaz
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Post by Lucio Diaz » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:53 am

I my humble opinion, a port is quite diferent to a subsystem. ReactOS "may" run on an Xbox, but it does not means it has or will have the special API of the Xbox kernel, so untill that API is implemented the Xbox games wont run in reactos even if reactos runs in Xbox.

Quite complicate, isnt it?

uniQ
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:58 am

Post by uniQ » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:52 am

That is what I'm asking

-Q
Coming on, coming up, let me help ROS and I'll be able to look @ a life well used.

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