Two decades later...what's the point?

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Tyco72
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Tyco72 »

I don't think the reason is this. Countries like Russia, China and others similar don't care at all what the occidental corporations wish. They do what they want.

easeltine
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by easeltine »

The fact is that I have Windows XP in the VirtualBox on several Computers. I installed it on one just one week ago. One can still Activate XP. If one goes to ERPMAN's websites, one can get the updates. If one updates XP to SP3, the updated installer, updating to IE8, one will get the Automatic Updates to work. Since Businesses actual still use XP there are 129 Security Updates one gets, and then a few others after that. With Windows XP SP3 on the VirtualBox I am using Office 2007, have a Free Antivirus called Panda Dome for protection, and can use all my older Windows Programs, and I do have many. Out of all my older Windows programs from CD's and DVD's the only one I can get to work in ReactOS is Kasparov Chess dated 2003.

That isn't to say that there is not a point to ReactOS within the VirtualBox. Other than Microsoft Windows, Linux Versions, and Mac OS/X, ReactOS is the best minor, and FREE O/S. It is better than TempleOS or Haiku, ReactOS is the best "other" O/S that there is! The O/S is FREE! I am using great programs, OpenOffice 4.1, AbiWord 2.9, Opera 12.18, K-Meleon 75.1, and my Kasparov Chess program on it. I am careful not to over reach the ability of ReactOS, and some programs I am purposely not using.
TempleOS has NO additional programs, one must have a 64 Bit Computer to install it, one cannot even go on the Internet, 'cuz nobody except Terry Davis knows "Holy C." Haiku has a ways to go before it is close to being as good as ReactOS. The programs within the Applications Manager are useful.

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dizt3mp3r
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by dizt3mp3r »

ReactOS just as the old British Rail advert says "we're getting there"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU-e2-4hptQ
Skillset: VMS sysadmin 20 years, fault Tolerance, cluster, Vax, Alpha, ftSparc. DCL, QB45, VB6, NET, PHP, JS, CMS, Graphics, Project Manager, DOS, Windows admin from 1985. Quad Electronics. Classic cars & motorbikes. Artist watercolours. Historian.

PurpleGurl
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by PurpleGurl »

There are many reasons for ROS now. They include:
  • Freedom from Windows "bloat" that slows down the machine and adds security problems.
  • Wanting something that gives you freedom and doesn't bind you to the wishes of a corporation.
  • Compatibility with older hardware, even recently "older" hardware that MS and Intel no longer support.
  • The ability to repurpose it for custom uses. For instance, a gamer might want maximum speed and minimal network support.
  • No hassles if you are a perpetual upgrader. The Windows model starting with XP made it harder to keep the same machine forever.
  • No need for an Appstore. Just find what you want from 3rd party vendors of your choice and install as usual.
  • Annoying things and excessive eye candy are removed. No need to patch ROS to keep annoyances from returning.
  • The ability to customize as desired without limits.

Aeneas
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Aeneas »

Face it: it _IS_ pointless.

That is, compared to Linux' importance and perhaps even all the scale down to NetBSD.

Then again, what is the point of skydiving, racing, soccer or tennis? Men and women mistreating balls is half our sports world, UTTERLY pointless!

It is an OS. And in reality, the "most mainstream non-Unix-like". If you want to learn "Unix-like", you have a million choices, but if you want to learn "non-Unix-like", your choices are limited.

At this point in time, it is not unlike FreeDOS, except not mature.

Aeneas
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Aeneas »

And to those of you who talk of retro-computing, sorry pals, people are using 98 or XP.

Because the "freedom" of an open-source OS matters only in so far as you have open-source apps. And if your apps are closed source (like MS Office or games), then the "openness" of the OS no longer matters. (And from a legal point of view, an "OS" is just an app, or a collection of apps, and is treated in no way differently than the programs on it).

So don't talk of that "marvellous retro scene",I know them and they don't give a damn.

What might, however, become interesting is a modern Windows-like OS for low-end devices. Intel will not want to give up x86 any time soon, Itanium burnt them enough. As opposed to Linux apps, ReactOS-apps will run on Windows by default. Similar use cases are explored e.g. by KaiOS, there for mobile phones "below" smartphones.

asd1!
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by asd1! »

@anyone: I know you want to give freedom to anyone, but this kind of thread is a honeyspot for trolls. We must keep focused on developing, testing, fixing bugs and making ReactOS grow, and not loose time on this kind of discussion. Who started this thread, did it with the clear the intention of discourage the developing of ReactOS. But we must keep strong, no matter of what. And we must keep in mind that "the more success ReactOS have, the more will come here people with dubious intentions". We live in a world that "if something is not spy-able, then it must not exists", and I'm sure those who put spyware/backdoors on Win10 will not be happy of having a free Windows compatible alternative who doesn't track users. I'm sick of all this non-sense battle against freedom in nowadays world (both at software and hardware level).

For me the answer is simple: if people can have several Linux alternatives, why we can not have an compatible alternative for Windows?. Keep focus on what's important, not on this (at least this is my own opinion, and I don't expect people agree with me).

shunesburg
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by shunesburg »

Two decades later...what's the point?
The fact is, ReactOS was and is a great contributor of WINE, and maybe without it, WINE should be not so good.
It's true there is a long way to be in Release Candidate, but there is close in comparison of the previous years.
The project just need more focus and money, that's all.

I see the author of the topic, just put "one" only post and never answer, maybe it will be good to close this topic?

Walt
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Walt »

This is an interesting thread, lots of good responses. Pretty much I think it has all been said. I have two concrete suggestions that seem not inconsistent with how the project is going and would be beneficial to the "I'd-like-to-use-ROS-if-possible" community. Neither will be popular, but ...

1. Label the project prominently as A HOBBY for a group of developers. Put that right out there everywhere 'alpha code' is mentioned. It's not the number/frequency of bugs that's an issue to those of us who'd like to use it, it is that there's no visible progress, no schedule, no plan that anyone out here can see, indeed there's no real sign that developers intend to ever reach a functional system.

Well, as A HOBBY that makes sense. I have a couple of hobbies that are exactly like ROS: I do what's fun, sometimes other people get something interesting or useful, but that's not the purpose and when I die it'll all be swept into the landfill, having 100% accomplished its purpose: I learned a lot and had fun in my spare time.

Tell the world "You;re welcome to what's here, it is of NO practical value, and there's no intent that it become practical."
I don't think it's good for people to repeatedly come here asking if they can use ROS for X. The answer is "NO you can't and nobody can even guess when (if ever) X might be possible."

There was a window of a few months through late fall-winter this past year when I was able to do my web browsing using ROS on one specific computer of maybe 8 I've tested it on. It was NIFTY! Then DISQUS (or ???) changed something and I could no longer do comments ... poof. That's as good as it has been.

CALL IT A HOBBY, say "There's no plan or schedule," and be done with it. It's your life, developers, you're entitled to do with it as you like. Most people, most of even the curious shouldn't bother. Those for whom ROS makes sense will self-identify and be fully forewarned.

2. In order to provide a bit of encouragement to those of us who get fanatical about other people's hobbies, try to find ONE development person who likes making things work for end users and who will bring ROS up on a specific model real machine and do the gruntwork to keep it working (or identify 'don't go there' sinkholes) on that one machine as the project grinds along.

Having spent weeks (part time) figuring out how to install ROS, finding a model machine (the Dell D-610, NO SSD, browser not later than FF 31.8 ...) on which it can be installed, and installing new versions from time to time that often didn't work at all, I can say with confidence that almost nobody's going to try to use this thing -- nor should they. My guess is that ONE person with a few hours a week could fix that and keep it fixed -- or when necessary say "Sorry ... the SPQR function is broken and can't be fixed right away. We'll let you know when it's restored."

As things stand anyone trying to make ROS part of daily life has to repeat what anyone else trying to do the same is trying to figure out. Case in point: After a six month layoff I decided to give it a try again. The latest build as of early this AM US ET went through install just fine but when I tried to restart to begin installing useful software it crashed in Freeloader. Now I could work backward through daily versions looking for something that doesn't do that but having no idea whatever when that bug was introduced OR if anything of value to me has been added/improved since the last version I had running it's probably not worth doing.

So how does the project benefit from having X (or XX, or XXX) people discover that Freeloader doesn't? ONE person in the development team probably could deal with that -- "Until further notice don't try anything after ... because it will crash in Freeloader."

One man's thoughts. Probably worth less than you paid for them.

Jah-On
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by Jah-On »

Well, there are goals, just not enough developers.

amber
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by amber »

I think ROS is a research project. Its task is not to replace Windows, but to study it. Anyone who wants to run a Windows program without buying Windows-it is enough to have WINE. Using examples of ROS code, students can study a Windows structure. Understand, for most developers, Windows is a "magic box". You put something in it and take something out of it. No one knows what processes are going on in the core of the system. ROS tries to leave fewer "dark spots" in understanding how Windows works.

"Two decades later...what's the point?" - research, research, research... Don't expect more from this system. Even if ROS once becomes widely used , it was not developed for this purpose. The goal of creating Linux is to get OpenSource software. Even if you like Linux, it was not created to please you. ReactOS has the same situation.

KOOLLAYDTAC
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by KOOLLAYDTAC »

amber wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:54 pm
Even if you like Linux, it was not created to please you. ReactOS has the same situation.
I found this part interesting because I've heard that before in regards to OS'es, various software, games and what not. I want to point out first it was obviously created to please those developing it because they obviously first work on what they think would be important to them. Secondly the reality is if and this applies to anything really if you really want people actually using your OS then it would be smart to create it to please the masses while still remaining true to the original design. This is why some versions of Linux Distributions out there excel over others.

For example I use Ubuntu 18.04 LTS myself and reason being is because I am absolutely not someone who will reinstall an OS several times every time I have an update for it. So naturally long term support and updates work more for my liking and one of the reasons that specific Distro. is widely more popular. Fortunately Linux has a wide variety of flavors out there so it is nearly impossible to not find one that is to your liking.

That having been said ReactOS is the only OS of it's kind and it would absolutely be a smart idea to design it to be useful to the masses if the goal is for this OS to be taken seriously. So it can either be a hobby piece or it can be something great. That's really up to the powers that be mate. ;)

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EmuandCo
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by EmuandCo »

We can please users when we reach a state where you really can do stuff with it WITHOUT REINSTALLING several times a DAY. Till then users are simply non existent. And even then I am quite sure that things will not change here. Pleasing users is something a distribution can do. Here you get the simple minimum and the rest is way above our manpower. Even getting it stable is above our limited manpower btw
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes

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dizt3mp3r
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by dizt3mp3r »

KOOLLAYDTAC wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:13 am
if you really want people actually using your OS then...
That's where you are wrong. We do NOT want users.
Skillset: VMS sysadmin 20 years, fault Tolerance, cluster, Vax, Alpha, ftSparc. DCL, QB45, VB6, NET, PHP, JS, CMS, Graphics, Project Manager, DOS, Windows admin from 1985. Quad Electronics. Classic cars & motorbikes. Artist watercolours. Historian.

larson9999
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by larson9999 »

React OS now PROMISES the same as Linux OFFERS.

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