Two decades later...what's the point?

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IoI_xD
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Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by IoI_xD »

I'm sure the developers are having fun making this operating system, and I'm sure the community is having a lot of fun with it. But I geniunely don't understand the logistical point of ReactOS in 2020.

ReactOS very likely made sense in 2000. After all, it's meant to run Windows 2000 programs. And if it were completed back then, it probably would have been great. It's not 2000 anymore though, it's 2020, and the OS is still in alpha and it's still meant to run Windows 2000 programs. What's the logicistical point of using this OS? Nobody makes Windows 2000 software anymore, and as far as I know nobody really uses Windows 2000 anymore. I personally like old Windows - I recently built a custom Windows 98 PC - but it's not something I'd use in my day to day life, and it seems like that's what this is meant to be used for. It's a better option for nostagia, old programs, and retro gaming (I personally couldn't get a VM working, but I wanted real hardware anyways). Is it for running Windows programs for free? Again, that would make more sense in 2000, but in 2020, Wine is able to decently emulate programs for Windows 10 (at least in my experience) on Linux. Yes, Wine has a lot of manual labor involved, but in the end at least it works. Is it for running old Windows programs specifically? Microsoft doesn't give two flying fucks if you download Windows 98 and set it up in a VM. It's not like they can either, Windows versions before XP had zero piracy protection. Is it because Linux has a learning curve, so a free version of Windows would be cooler? That's the most fair thing I could think of. But in recent years Linux has gotten very user friendly and very easy for the average user to download and use instead. apt-get is just one of the many innovations that has streamlined Linux tenfold.

Again, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I just geniunely do not understand the purpose of this OS. Also, I'm sure posts like this have gotten more common recently with recent exposure, but I personally could not find any...

hbelusca
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by hbelusca »

For "academic purposes" would be an answer.

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dizt3mp3r
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by dizt3mp3r »

Oh, come on, use your brain man! (OP). :D

Read the following thread and adjust the brain switch to ON.

viewtopic.php?t=15868
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TMStreicher
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by TMStreicher »

Windows 10 is not something completely alien. It is based on NT-concepts and supports the "old" Windows APIs. Lots of modern software for end-users does not need more than the "old" functionality, and so it is no surprise that lots of modern software works on ReactOS.
EPIC WIN!

middings
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by middings »

IoI_xD wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:27 pm
ReactOS very likely made sense in 2000. After all, it's meant to run Windows 2000 programs.
How did lol_xD conclude ReactOS is "meant to run Windows 2000 programs"?
This ReactOS Wiki page describes ReactOS. Did the page become difficult for newcomers to find?

florian
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by florian »

Another answer would be that WINE benefits from ReactOS, too. You could check for instance names as Martin Fuchs or Can Taşan (Compare https://wiki.winehq.org/Who%27s_Who). Not to mention unknown patches or hints to other projects and their developers.

karlexceed
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by karlexceed »

IoI_xD wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:27 pm
Microsoft doesn't give two flying fucks if you download Windows 98 and set it up in a VM.
Ever try to install Windows XP or Server 2003 in a VM? Without a license or some sort of crack, you only get a few days of functionality until it stops working correctly. That would be fine enough for me, since I have some XP licenses around, but last I checked I could no longer actually register a legitimate copy of the OS.

cb88
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by cb88 »

karlexceed wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:36 pm
IoI_xD wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:27 pm
Microsoft doesn't give two flying fucks if you download Windows 98 and set it up in a VM.
Ever try to install Windows XP or Server 2003 in a VM? Without a license or some sort of crack, you only get a few days of functionality until it stops working correctly. That would be fine enough for me, since I have some XP licenses around, but last I checked I could no longer actually register a legitimate copy of the OS.
Unfortunately I have yet had a ReactOS VM outlast the unlicensed period of XP... or even a few hours , I can be a bit hard on it but still XP is much more stable, if ReactOS ever gets as stable as XP it will probably replace XP for in when running on vintage HW for games and such, and if it adds a few newer APIs all the better.

rliegh
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by rliegh »

IoI_xD wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:27 pm
I'm sure the developers are having fun making this operating system, and I'm sure the community is having a lot of fun with it.
Congratulations.
You just answered your own question.

florian
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by florian »

And let's not forget the ReactOS FAQ with answers to frequently asked questions such as

- Why ReactOS? Why clone Microsoft Windows™?
- Why don't you help develop Wine/Linux instead?
- Why is ReactOS development so slow?

Again: Please read our ReactOS FAQ.

dark
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by dark »

I could easily ask the exact same thing about desktop Linux regarding its market share. After careful analysis, a stable ReactOS would gain more market share than desktop Linux ever will. It's also worth mentioning almost every alternative OS uses a unix clone core with POSIX standards to port user software from Linux, which in turn means they copy all the terrible design/business decisions (like package managers) that keep Linux in that irrelevant 1% market share rank.

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binarymaster
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by binarymaster »

dark wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:44 pm
After careful analysis, a stable ReactOS would gain more market share than desktop Linux ever will.
While it's unlikely to happen soon, every minor ReactOS release makes linux fanboys (kernel) panic. :lol:

jcordeiro
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by jcordeiro »

dark wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:44 pm
After careful analysis, a stable ReactOS would gain more market share than desktop Linux ever will.
The world has changed.
In the old times (2000) the fight was against MS closed standards and intentional standard change.
Back in that day ppl would not use OpenOffice because the files would be different when opened with MS office.
Linux had 0 windows applications and 0 Windows games.
Wine failed to open most of windows programs and virtualization was not an option.
Back then, we thought that if we could get windows programs and games to run on Linux, MS would lose the battle.
Boy we were wrong.

Libre office now works perfectly.
Steam has 50% of the games supporting Linux.
Most important programs have ports for Linux or are java based.
And for all others we can run a vm for free in virtual box or kvm

So why is Linux not the winner? because:

Windows OEM license now costs less than $20 (what ever that license is, it keeps my windows "genuine" and updated) So ppl don't any compelling need to change (back in 2000 we would need $200-$300 to get a windows key)

PPl now learn how to do stuff via youtube and via work environment. No one reads the manual anymore....
Teenagers learn to do everything via YouTube, and YouTubers want to have the most views possible. No youtuber will trend doing "how to make your realtek wireless card work in ubuntu 18.04"
Then when you ask google "how to remove red eyes from photo" any video about gimp on Linux is buried under 9999 popular "photoshop on windows 10" videos.
And MS has their eyes on this. If the trend started to change, MS would sponsor YouTubers to change it back.
Check GitHub... getting too big and threading, lets buy it...
So teenagers won't read manuals and will only find windows videos.

Then they get to work and there every one also uses windows and MS tools. Because those workers were already teenagers a few years ago and only know windows. And companies need support(no one can handle the responsibility).


React OS now offers the same as Linux does.
A way to run windows stuff.
But has the same impossible barrier for the general population: A different layout with a different click order to solve an issue and ZERO threading videos supporting it..

Take my wife for example. A hospital nurse with 2 kids. We have LibreOffice in all our home computers, and no MS office. She after many years i managed to get her editing word files with LibreOffice writer, and she has a good know-how where things are.
But the other day my son's school teacher asked for a work to be delivered in PowerPoint format (1st of all, F*** you teacher for not asking a PDF).
She had to open LibreOffice Impress she complained about 3 hours for not knowing where stuff was then she complained about not being able to search online for videos teaching. Then, when the work was complete, I had to tell her that LibreOffice saves stuff in .odt and that she needed to convert into one of 8 possible formats supported by Microsoft PowerPoint.
She said why are we using this crappy software again? On the other one I just press "save" and send an email with it.
I tried to explain the best why based on economic factors and some moral ones.
But how about the 95% of the house holds that have no one with my knowledge? How will they acquire and use LibreOffice?

Linux and ReactOs and all free software have currently the same issue. Not threading media about it.
It does not matter how good those are if PPL can't find videos online (on the top 5 of a search) on how to do stuff no one will use them.

Wanna jumpstart this project to the sky?
Step 1: get it working 98%
Step 2: get YouTubers making videos about it.
Step 3: get social network VIPs threading about those videos.

It's a sad world, but it's the real world.
Last edited by jcordeiro on Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

dark
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by dark »

jcordeiro wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:52 am
dark wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:44 pm
After careful analysis, a stable ReactOS would gain more market share than desktop Linux ever will.
You're overthinking this. ReactOS needs enough money to hire 100 full time developers. Linux needs a community that doesn't see their product religiously so they finally start being able to take objective criticism (can't even get the current one's to admit the typical end user WILL SEE A COMMAND PROMPT, and they immediately go into anecdotal evidence about how they haven't needed it so no one else will, completely ignoring half of the posts on new user help forums).

jcordeiro
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Re: Two decades later...what's the point?

Post by jcordeiro »

I think there is a place for all ppl in Linux community.
I think its quite useful that god like ppl like Linus exists and that thousands of ppl are his blind followers. They keep the trending social VIPs away from the kernel and the core utils.
That does not impact at all the improvements in user interface.
We see more and more distros motivated by design and looks, based on core distros, like Mint based on debian/ubuntu.
Their looks and user accessibility are not impacted by any "GO F*** YOU SELF" that Linus trows on the mailing lists.

Look at Distros now:
Single 2 or 3 "next" clicks and its installed.
Good looks.
2 3 clicks to get software

It's 10000 times nicer than it was in 2000.
But ppl now are lazy..
They want everything to be feed to them.
They want to ask "siri, i don't care about privacy, in fact, use my porn info to get more oriented porn adds".
They want to do 1 click to have food at the door.
They want to have friends by showing their fake pictures.
They want to have glory and self accomplishment just by the amount of likes their post had.

Today the most important thing for any product is popularity. Not quality or price.
And you get popularity by feeding the gods of laziness, the YouTubers, lazy friendly apps
Last edited by jcordeiro on Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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