Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

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MugenFighter
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by MugenFighter »

Pi_User5 wrote:I don't think so.
Well I guess Windows 2.01 won't boot without DOSBox then. But, I did manage to install it using only the NTVDM. However, I was using a virtual machine... not sure how it would install on real hardware.
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hbelusca
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by hbelusca »

Courtesy EmuandCo:
[ external image ]
(see https://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-9705 for more details).

Aleksander and V. continue to fix NTVDM so that 2nd stage of windows 3.11 install (graphics mode) can start.

erkinalp
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by erkinalp »

Will we be able to see Windows Millennium on ReactOS Virtual DOS Machine?
Last edited by erkinalp on Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ctasan
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by ctasan »

erkinalp wrote:Will we be able to see Windows Millennium on ReactOS Virrual DOS Machine?
That will be too slow, Me is happy with Pentium 2 or 3, at least.

More important, will Windows 3.11 be able to run in Protected or 386 Enhanced mode? 386 Enhanced mode sees more memory (up to 64 MB), so we can run Windows 3.11 faster and with more apps simultaneously running.
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hbelusca
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by hbelusca »

ctasan wrote:
erkinalp wrote:Will we be able to see Windows Millennium on ReactOS Virrual DOS Machine?
That will be too slow, Me is happy with Pentium 2 or 3, at least.

More important, will Windows 3.11 be able to run in Protected or 386 Enhanced mode? 386 Enhanced mode sees more memory (up to 64 MB), so we can run Windows 3.11 faster and with more apps simultaneously running.
(ReactOS) NTVDM was never intended to simulate a Pentium+ class of processors (and to be a full-fledged virtual machine like QEmu and others). So everything that needs at least a Pentium to run, will not run in NTVDM.

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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by ctasan »

386 Enhanced Mode does not require a Pentium then :)
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Alahndro
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by Alahndro »

I still have my old 386DX board with win95 installed, so this should run too?!

I think the strength of Ros' ntvdm is that it provides much more virtualisation flexibilty while still operating in the enviroment of the host OS. Windows alsways had the combatibility tab where you could select reported OS and screen, maybe our NTVDM will be further expanded later on to provide multiple CPUs for all apps while still working in host's grahpical shell. That'll be like the combination of qemu and vbox' integrated mode but even better...

Besides, how do you start i.e. freedos from floppy in NTVDM?

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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by EmuandCo »

You don't. NTVDM is no QEmu. As soon as you start it you have a emulated 486 MS-DOS environment. You can compare it better to DOSBox than a full featured VM. Booting a Bootcd is far away from the needs the NTVDM has to and will provide. Needs are 16 bit GUI app translation and DOS app support. This is it
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hbelusca
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by hbelusca »

EmuandCo wrote:You don't. NTVDM is no QEmu. As soon as you start it you have a emulated 486 MS-DOS environment. You can compare it better to DOSBox than a full featured VM. Booting a Bootcd is far away from the needs the NTVDM has to and will provide. Needs are 16 bit GUI app translation and DOS app support. This is it
Err... as Aleksander said:
TheFlash wrote: <@[TheFlash]> "you can compare it to dosbox..."
<@[TheFlash]> no, you can't :P
<@[TheFlash]> you can compare it to the NT MIPS ntvdm
<@[TheFlash]> and to the windows ntvdm

Alahndro
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by Alahndro »

You don't. NTVDM is no QEmu. As soon as you start it you have a emulated 486 MS-DOS environment. You can compare it better to DOSBox than a full featured VM. Booting a Bootcd is far away from the needs the NTVDM has to and will provide. Needs are 16 bit GUI app translation and DOS app support. This is it
I know that it was not the goal to build another dosbox. But as far as I understand any code that runs inside ntvdm sees a complete 486 cpu, bios apis, available memory and a screen interface. And is a kernel (like freedos) not just code that needs a special way to init? I mean you've got win 3.11 to run

Blackcrack
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by Blackcrack »

*lol*

EmuandCO, Win95 can you start the installation via "setup.exe" and don't need an boot-disk or
an boot'CD , you can install in an plain msdos6.22 ..Win95 over Dos .. so, should be able for test to install.. but..
the graphical Mode of Win95.. i don't know ..
i remember me, there was something about ?14? upgrate-Disk from Win3.11 to Win95 ..
with 1.6 MB oversize .. or was it 24 Disk's ? *grin*

but, would be really interesting if anyone bring it finished to install Win95
into Reactos 8) *lol*

would be really.. really interesting, if this works !

best regards
Blacky

hbelusca
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by hbelusca »

Blackcrack wrote:*lol*
EmuandCO, Win95 can you start the installation via "setup.exe" and don't need an boot-disk or
an boot'CD , you can install in an plain msdos6.22 ..Win95 over Dos .. so, should be able for test to install.. but..
the graphical Mode of Win95.. i don't know ..
i remember me, there was something about ?14? upgrate-Disk from Win3.11 to Win95 ..
with 1.6 MB oversize .. or was it 24 Disk's ? *grin*
[...]
EmuandCo already knew you could start a Win3.11/whatever install directly without the disks. For your Win95 experiment, just find some iso of it on the internet, uncompress all its contents in one directory, and then run the setup.exe (this is exactly the same procedure as for Win3.11).

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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by Blackcrack »

i have ... humm.. i be now since ~1994 around in the Net ;)
and i have an original update Win95' Cd and .. i believe.. update disk's still on my shelf ,
also an Novell Dos Box and i think, also WinNT4.0 Workstation as Orginal ;)
(And by the way, i was at Schadt Computer in Reutlingen, Software and System counselor ;) )

best regards
Blacky

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EmuandCo
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by EmuandCo »

Anyways. Win95 only works on DOSBox if you use a virtual HDD. Why? Because Windows tries to update DOS to v7.00. Good luck anyway.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

erkinalp
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Re: Windows 3.11 in NTVDM

Post by erkinalp »

This is ReactOS, we have no DOS bootsector stub by default.
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