Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

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Webunny
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Webunny »

solid_black wrote:
Webunny wrote:Edit: about the legal point; obviously public domain and CC0 falls under it, but is GPL and CC-BY also ok?
I'd also ask:
Can we use ReactOS logo and how does it affect licensing?
Ah, you mean on the wallpapers?

Trademark and copy-licensing are two different things, though. I guess if ROS explicitly allows to use of the logo in copyright-terms to these wallpapers, it's ok in that sense, and it doesn't affect trademark.

Or, we could just forgo on adding the logo to the wallpaper(s) itself, to keep things simple. After all, the wallpapers and backgrounds of Windows XP and later didn't actually have the Windows logo on there neither. Maybe it's best to keep it 'pure'.

Z98
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Z98 »

The standard that we will apply to any suggestions will be the same that we have applied in the past when a proposal is made. Nothing's changed.

Use of the logos is permissible since this is intended for use in ReactOS itself. What we do not want to see happening is someone taking a photo from a photographer that did not release the work for reuse and then submitting it to the project.

Webunny
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Webunny »

Z98 wrote:The standard that we will apply to any suggestions will be the same that we have applied in the past when a proposal is made. Nothing's changed.

Use of the logos is permissible since this is intended for use in ReactOS itself. What we do not want to see happening is someone taking a photo from a photographer that did not release the work for reuse and then submitting it to the project.
But since the standards in the past have never been clear (at least, not to me and, I presume, many others here on the forum), that doesn't tell us much. Maybe you could explicitly say what standards you use?


Your example at the end is a legal one. I understand those concerns, and I subscribe to it. But apart from technical and/or legal reasons, are there others? In essence, I want the assurance that, after setting up a whole project and voting for it by the communtity and what not, the devs don't block it, because of personal taste. At least, not for the ROS Community Edition. You know. Community Edition.

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Black_Fox
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Black_Fox »

Webunny wrote:Maybe you could explicitly say what standards you use?
Common sense.

Seriously, what do you think the ideal answer to your question would be? That the team comes out with a list of 50 things we can't use for the wallpaper, so that people could just find 51st unacceptable thing (that they see as perfectly OK) and then write forum posts about how it is unfair their idea was not accepted? If your grandmother recoils from the wallpaper, it's probably not good. If your son thinks it's boring, that's not an issue. If people get epileptic seizure from looking at the wallpaper, that again is bad :-)

Webunny
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Webunny »

Black_Fox wrote:
Webunny wrote:Maybe you could explicitly say what standards you use?
Common sense.

Seriously, what do you think the ideal answer to your question would be? That the team comes out with a list of 50 things we can't use for the wallpaper, so that people could just find 51st unacceptable thing (that they see as perfectly OK) and then write forum posts about how it is unfair their idea was not accepted? If your grandmother recoils from the wallpaper, it's probably not good. If your son thinks it's boring, that's not an issue. If people get epileptic seizure from looking at the wallpaper, that again is bad :-)
The ideal answer would be to get clear indications of what the standards are based on. This has not to be done with detailed examples, but general (but clearly defined) rules. Nobody was talking about a list of specific examples (one could always say 'but it's not my grandma, but my grandpa that recoils', otherwise), but that doesn't mean one couldn't give broader guidelines that encompass all those examples.

For instance:

your grandma that recoils: 1)no indecent pictures
epileptic seisure: 2)no pictures that could pose a health hazard


See? It's not that difficult to find a general standard which deals with your examples, without falling in the pitfall of giving an endless exhaustive list, as you imply.

The bottomline is, however, that it can't be based on personal taste, or otherwise, the whole voting-thing becomes meaningless. And you'll note I didn't get any such reassurance, even after asking it thrice. It's not that difficult to say: "as long as the pictures are reasonable (aka, the guidelines), they will be accepted, even if some devs don't like it personally". That's all it takes, really.

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Black_Fox
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Black_Fox »

I actually really meant what would you answer your question with :-) I am aware there are some possible "clear indications" or maybe even "detailed examples", but that's just politician talk, that's no answer. Let me step in:

The "common sense" basics:
- nothing copyrighted - without explicit written permission granting the project a perpetual and unrestricted use license
- nothing against good manners (or whatever the phrase is) - that includes gore, pornography, obscenity, taboo
- nothing against the law
- health hazard - dark green Comic Sans text written over bright pink background... :D

Anything else comes to mind?
I don't really think the veto right is a threat, it's just a safety net that is fully understandable to have. After all, the submission will first be reviewed by the community itself, so most unacceptable cases will be sorted out then.

-------
IMHO, ROS doesn't need to have any wallpaper bundled at all. The releases can surely have one (voted by community I guess), but otherwise it's just a waste of bandwidth for testers and buildbots. Maybe there can be a ReactOS Wallpaper Manager done with all the entries listed, sortable by multiple criteria...?

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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Webunny »

Black_Fox wrote:I actually really meant what would you answer your question with :-) I am aware there are some possible "clear indications" or maybe even "detailed examples", but that's just politician talk, that's no answer. Let me step in:

The "common sense" basics:
- nothing copyrighted - without explicit written permission granting the project a perpetual and unrestricted use license
- nothing against good manners (or whatever the phrase is) - that includes gore, pornography, obscenity, taboo
- nothing against the law
- health hazard - dark green Comic Sans text written over bright pink background... :D

Anything else comes to mind?
I don't really think the veto right is a threat, it's just a safety net that is fully understandable to have. After all, the submission will first be reviewed by the community itself, so most unacceptable cases will be sorted out then.

-------
IMHO, ROS doesn't need to have any wallpaper bundled at all. The releases can surely have one (voted by community I guess), but otherwise it's just a waste of bandwidth for testers and buildbots. Maybe there can be a ReactOS Wallpaper Manager done with all the entries listed, sortable by multiple criteria...?
Your 4 points would be enough; it's just a pity you aren't a dev. ;-)

However, this is not always the case. I remember some dude made a contest/poll for a slogan, and put quite some effort in it. And in the end it was not accepted anyway. True, z98 made a post about it, which was fairly decent (as opposed to not letting anything be known and just ignoring it)... but in the end, it boiled down to 'we don't like it'. It wasn't because it was illegal, a health hazard, indecent or copyrighted. So where is your 'common sense' there?

Granted, an official slogan isn't the same as a relatively minor thing like wallpapers, so the devs *could* be more lenient. Only, look at it from my perspective: I don't feel like making the same kind of effort with the same kind of result. I've still got better things to do than waste my time like that. *NORMALLY*, for this kind of thing, your 4 points should be enough. I'm asking the devs/PR, if this is, indeed, so.

Even WinXP had several wallpapers bundled with it, so it's not out of the ordinary nor beyond common expectations. As for 'needing' it: indeed, it doesn't. There is no functionality gained by it. But that ain't the point neither. This shouldn't be viewed from the stance of the usefulness in utility/functionality/code. It's just an extra way to please the crowd (and many ordinary users DO look at the wallpapers to choose one from) and as a way to do some community building for/with ROS. In fact, it's just *because* it's not code (or nothing too serious), that it's more easily implemented (potentially) and the possibility of actually being accepted is much greater. I would think it a nice little extra for the RCE, more choice for the public to choose from, and completely in line with the 'community' concept it has adopted.

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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Z98 »

You do realize that most of the wallpapers that we bundle are ones people posted on the forum?

The_French_Rat
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by The_French_Rat »

Z98 wrote:You do realize that most of the wallpapers that we bundle are ones people posted on the forum?
You do realise that you only bundle a subset?
Just think of ReactOS as the XP beta, Whistler.

Webunny
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Webunny »

The_French_Rat wrote:
Z98 wrote:You do realize that most of the wallpapers that we bundle are ones people posted on the forum?
You do realise that you only bundle a subset?

I don't want to go in a tit-for-tat discussion. I think z98 is, in a roundabout way, indicating it will be accepted under reasonable standards, and not merely personal taste of the devs. It's as far as he'll actually come to say it, because I don't think he'll get any closer to explicitly saying it. ;)

Well, ok, I'll make a go for it, then.

One thing I still need to know, in regard to the 'perpetuate use' of the picture (since I think it will be easier just letting everyone adhere to an already existing licence so there is no discussion later on): apart from public domain and CC0, is GPL and CC-BY also acceptable?

Webunny
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Webunny »

Ok, I made a post specifically for the wallpaper-contest here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13404&p=109722#p109722

I would like to do it in two stages, though. The first round is here, where people suggest things, explicitly say what licence it's under (either public domain, CC0... or GPL/CC-BY if that's ok for the devs too), and maybe ask feedback and try variants out, BEFORE I place it (the definite version(s) on the thread for voting them.

The second stage will then take place later, on that thread - or maybe with a link there to a real poll/voting mechanism page/site, I'll see - where the actual voting takes place when all the (definite) examples are put there, then.

What we got so far:

Oldman:

1) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352#p109134 (public domain)
2) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352#p109389 (public domain)

Tom Lee:

1) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352#p109332 (public domain)

Black_solid:

1) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352#p109369 (GNU GPL 2+ and CC-BY)*
2) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352&start=15#p109501 (GNU GPL 2+ and CC-BY)*
3) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352&start=30#p109548 (GNU GPL 2+ and CC-BY)*

Gamax92:

1) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352#p109372 (unknown)**

Nemerian:

1) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352&start=15#p109502 (unknown)**

Henrytang5247:

1) https://reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php ... 29#p109529 (unknown)**

--------------------------------

* Depending on what z98/vic says about those licenses
** Please specify what licence they are under (preferably PD or CC0)

For all the other contributors: are the examples you gave the final version, and is it ready to be incorporated into the list for potential voting?

--------------------------------

Technical question to the PR: what is the minimal resolution for a viable picture as wallpaper, and in what format can it be? (WebP, JPG, BMP, GIF, PNG,...?)
Last edited by Webunny on Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by manuel »

i like this wallpaper
2) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352#p109389 (public domain)

oldman
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by oldman »

I posted the images here http://jira.reactos.org/browse/CORE-8260 (as was suggested), if you want to look at them all in one place
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solid_black
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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by solid_black »

Webunny wrote:Ok, I made a post specifically for the wallpaper-contest here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13404&p=109722#p109722
Thank you for organizing this all!
Webunny wrote: Black_solid:

1) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352#p109369 (GNU GPL 2+ and CC-BY)*
2) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352&start=15#p109501 (GNU GPL 2+ and CC-BY)*
3) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352&start=30#p109548 (GNU GPL 2+ and CC-BY)*
I'm actually solid_black, not Black_solid :D
I posted these images here just to get some feedback, not for officially submitting them to the contest.
And I'm not sure about last image license as I used ROS logo. Z98 said on that "Use of the logos is permissible", but I don't know if I can declare my image GPL/CC-BY.

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Re: Is anyone interested in this wallpaper?

Post by Webunny »

solid_black wrote:
Webunny wrote:Ok, I made a post specifically for the wallpaper-contest here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13404&p=109722#p109722
Thank you for organizing this all!
Webunny wrote: Black_solid:

1) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352#p109369 (GNU GPL 2+ and CC-BY)*
2) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352&start=15#p109501 (GNU GPL 2+ and CC-BY)*
3) viewtopic.php?f=25&t=13352&start=30#p109548 (GNU GPL 2+ and CC-BY)*
I'm actually solid_black, not Black_solid :D
I posted these images here just to get some feedback, not for officially submitting them to the contest.
And I'm not sure about last image license as I used ROS logo. Z98 said on that "Use of the logos is permissible", but I don't know if I can declare my image GPL/CC-BY.
I've made a gallery:

http://postimg.org/gallery/bee8d9pi/


While I think I'll be using that later on for the voting as well, this is also just preliminary, to make it people more easy to see them at one glance. One can still change them or delete them, or decide which one to put on there later on.

Haha, yeah, solid_black it is. At least I got the main parts right. :P Well, I don't know if GPL and/or CC-BY is ok; I'm still waiting the answer of PR/devs about it. I'm not sure what the logo is under in copyright terms (it is trademarked, though), but as z98 said, since it's for use for/by ROS itself, it doesn't pose a problem. You can't place the logo under an arbitrary licence, but you CAN put your own image under that licence, and then 'have' permission to use the logo in it, for a wallpaper. That said... generally speaking, I wouldn't exaggerate with the logo-thing. I prefer crisp clean 'pure' images. The wallpapers in Windows aren't full of logo's neither. It's good to have one or two 'primary' wallpapers with the logo on there, but I would hope there are some without any clutter too.

As for your pictures itself: I would recommend to change not only the color of the background, but also the balls/bubbles. As for the colour-pallet I would go with the colours of the logo itself: from black-ish to grey to greyblue to metalblue. Of course, one could mix some other colours in between to have some contrast, but I would incorporate some of those colours, at least.
Last edited by Webunny on Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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