state of play

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kerravon
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state of play

Post by kerravon »

Hello.

For the last approx 25 years, I have been developing my own OS, called PDOS, which has evolved into a 32-bit partial Windows clone, ie just like ReactOS. You can find it here:

http://pdos.sourceforge.net/

The code is all public domain, so anything of interest can be included in ReactOS without restriction.

However, my interest is almost exclusively text, not graphics. I am still working to get text working to my satisfaction.

So all of my development effort is spent using micro-emacs, and my own derivative of GCC 3.2.3, all at the Windows 10 command prompt. I run Bochs to run PDOS/386.

A recent encounter with a Macbook Pro made me realize that I wish to distance myself from the internal hard disk of both the Macbook Pro (running MacOS) and my Dell (running Windows 10) and to instead boot and run from a 64 GB USB stick.

I still have some interaction with the modern world, specifically I run Windows Live Mail to read my email, and have about 5 GB worth of data there. I also use a web browser. And sometimes I need to run Openoffice.org.

PDOS is far smaller than ReactOS, only about 50,000 lines of code, so it is not capable of matching it. So I am hoping ReactOS will bridge the gap for me. I don't need full Win 10 capability (and if I do, I'll just boot off the internal hard disk), and I don't need 64-bit. But I do need some level of graphics.

The ReactOS Wiki said that it used to be able to boot off USB stick, but stopped being able to. I went back to an old version, ready to burn using Rufus as per documentation:

https://reactos.org/wiki/LiveUSB

and Rufus only allowed me to burn an MBR format. But I would like my USB stick to work on a Macbook Pro too, which means it needs to be GPT. It won't recognize an MBR USB stick - I tried that with PDOS/386 which uses MBR - it doesn't come up as a boot option, and PDOS/386 relies on a BIOS, and the Mac doesn't have a BIOS, only UEFI.

So what I would like to know is - where do I stand in getting a version of ReactOS burnt onto USB stick such that it can be booted on both my Dell and the Macbook Pro, so that I can both browse the web and run Windows Live Mail?

Or do I need to go for Linux Wine instead?

I'd rather go with ReactOS and I don't care if it isn't stable. I do most of my work from the command prompt and I'm expecting that to be sufficiently stable.

I intend to replace Windows Live Mail with something that runs under PDOS/386, mainly text-based, but that is probably years away, and I wish to move to USB in a matter of weeks.

Also I'm not really expecting to have drivers for PDOS/386. I will just drive a COM port, as per traditional 80386 system. As such, I am expecting PDOS/386 to run alongside ReactOS, with some sort of BBS running on ReactOS and applications on PDOS/386 communicating with that BBS.

Thanks!
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dizt3mp3r
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Re: state of play

Post by dizt3mp3r »

Very impressive, crazy but that's seems to be you and that is fine by me!

Nothing wrong with being crazy in the o/s development world. I feel that the only problem for you is finding a version of ReactOS that is stable enough for your needs. The team isn't working to that agenda so anything could break at any time with the latest version though it should be more stable over time when beta stage is reached.

I'd suggest trying some older versions and just seeing what works for you with the caveat that when it breaks don't call us!

The main issue with what you are doing is that it requires support and the team just won't provide that in any depth. They might help a bit but after a while of badgering that help may dry up, as they are attempting development and not support at this stage. You are going to be largely on your own.

I could suggest that you join the testing team and see what works and what does not and feedback that list, however the dev team are quite aware that a LOT is broken so that might also be fruitless for you as these issues won't be addressed individually for some time.

Good luck to you though and with your programming skills you may be able to assist the team in specific areas that will aid you in your search for an alternative o/s. If you have the skill to code APIs you may be able to introduce those components/fixes that you need in order to get ReactOS to do what you want. Realise though that the team is never going to be trying to create a usable o/s until the end of the beta stage and as of now, we are still heavily in Alpha.

Personally, I think you are asking a bit too much from ReactOS in its current stage of development but good luck and I am sure your skills could be used by the ReactOS team.
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kerravon
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Re: state of play

Post by kerravon »

I have done some more research and have a different use case.

1. PDOS/386 boots from USB stick and user can write an ASCII text document using micro-emacs (this works).

2. User takes USB stick to internet cafe to send via email using gmail. (this works too)

Now, can I replace a physical trip to the internet cafe with ReactOS?

The crucial thing is that ReactOS has Windows-compatible drivers so will likely support the wireless card in my laptop. My research suggests that my only other choice is Microsoft Windows and Linux.

I don't need graphics. I just need ReactOS to boot from USB stick, connect to gmail, send, receive, shutdown and reboot back to PDOS/386.

So my question is - does ReactOS have wireless drivers that semi-work? I don't need reliability, I'm happy to reboot a few times, and resend the email a few times.

Preferably this would all be done from the equivalent of autoexec.bat without involving any graphics.

Thanks. Paul.
Mna.
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Re: state of play

Post by Mna. »

Hi.
Wow!, Reading this part(*) and not believing my eyes. I thought the epoch of Operating Systems written by one man is over, but come and see!
What this recalled me immediately, though, is a TempleOS project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TempleOS and its creator Terry Davis.
This is mostly because TempleOS was also text-only, and also contains line "Public Domain Operating System" immediately after its name, like in this screenshot at boot time:
[ external image ]

But Terry had psychological problems, hope you are not subject to similar things.
Well I could guess you probably know that story, as OS-creator type man.

(*)
kerravon wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 11:45 am Hello.
For the last approx 25 years, I have been developing my own OS, called PDOS, which has evolved into a 32-bit partial Windows clone, ie just like ReactOS. You can find it here:
http://pdos.sourceforge.net/
The code is all public domain,
---
What relates to you main question, it was not fully clear for me, do you want to run your PDOS OS over ReactOS booted from USB or you want to take some USB drivers out of ReactOS and integrate them into PDOS, making it able to boot from USB immediately. My guess, you meant the first option.

P.S. Found this, while searching for screenshot image, seems interesting. "A Constructive Look At TempleOS"
http://www.codersnotes.com/notes/a-cons ... -templeos/
MadWolf
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Re: state of play

Post by MadWolf »

kerravon wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 9:11 am 2. User takes USB stick to internet cafe to send via email using gmail. (this works too)

Now, can I replace a physical trip to the internet cafe with ReactOS?

The crucial thing is that ReactOS has Windows-compatible drivers so will likely support the wireless card in my laptop.
simple answer no
kerravon
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Re: state of play

Post by kerravon »

Mna. wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:08 pm What relates to you main question, it was not fully clear for me, do you want to run your PDOS OS over ReactOS booted from USB or you want to take some USB drivers out of ReactOS and integrate them into PDOS, making it able to boot from USB immediately. My guess, you meant the first option.
Hi. Sorry for the delay in replying. There was a whirlwind of activity (in PDOS) since then, latest being a flavor of it running on the Android as an ARM application (PdAndro).

To answer the old question - definitely NOT "take some USB drivers".

And I'm not sure what you mean by the former "over ReactOS".

These would nominally be two independent boots directly on the hardware.

Regardless, my situation has changed again, and I have acquired an interesting laptop - a Lenovo with a Zhaoxin (ie not Intel/AMD) CPU.

I've actually got two of them.

So they come with Kylin OS which basically works, including driving the internal Wifi.

I have also bought a separate Windows 10 Pro on USB stick, and that installs too, but can't drive the internal Wifi. It can access the internet using USB tethering to my Android phone, but all attempts to get proper wifi drivers have failed to date.

And I thought ReactOS might be a better option, since I'm expecting it to have access to the same Wifi drivers that Linux has. Although Zorin OS failed to run properly on my machine after it installed (but was able to run from USB stick).

If ReactOS runs, then primarily I would be running Windows 2000 (I bought 2 copies from ebay) under Virtualbox under ReactOS for PDOS development.

Ok, so I tried installing ReactOS on this new machine. I tried both of these:

ReactOS-0.4.14-release-98-gcb8061c.iso
reactos-bootcd-0.4.15-dev-7555-g9132359-x86-gcc-lin-dbg.iso

Both of them reached the point of saying "loading boot drivers" (when booted from USB stick), but the 4.14 then just stopped with a cursor flashing in the top left, while the 4.15-dev just had a black screen.

Is this something that anyone would like to debug? I can assist with running tests on this real hardware.

Thanks. Paul.
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EmuandCo
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Re: state of play

Post by EmuandCo »

"since I'm expecting it to have access to the same Wifi drivers that Linux has."

Uuuuh, nope? What makes you come to such a conclusion? We are NO LINUX, NO UNIX, NO *NIX at all. Nowhere, never and never before.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
kerravon
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Re: state of play

Post by kerravon »

EmuandCo wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 1:52 pm "since I'm expecting it to have access to the same Wifi drivers that Linux has."

Uuuuh, nope? What makes you come to such a conclusion?
This:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReactOS

collaborates with many other FOSS projects,[16][17] most notably the Wine project, which presents a Windows compatibility layer for Unix-like operating systems.

Plus the fact that it is GPL, so the license is the same so no restriction there either.

(I'm not disputing that the conclusion is incorrect - just showing how I got there)
Last edited by kerravon on Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EmuandCo
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Re: state of play

Post by EmuandCo »

Wine's dlls are Windows compatible to some extent, and yes, we use quite a bunch of them, because why reinventing the wheel twice? Does this make us another fork of a fork of a forked Linux distro? Nope, luckily not. We are a Windows architecture, not binary compatible but many parts are quite close to be. We use the Wine parts under a Windows NT 5.2 alike kernel and a Windows alike Win32 subsystem. We use Windows drivers for anything and everything.

Check your Wiki entry a bit closer.
OS family: Windows NT-like
Kernel type: Hybrid (designed to be compatible with Windows NT family)
Influenced by: Microsoft Windows

Here as lil diagram:[ external image ]

Just because we can internally glue together some 3rd party libraries making them Windows behavior alike and plug these in our kernel/drivers/subsystem for reaching our goal makes it still not possible to use *nix drivers. Neither is that a goal we aim to reach.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
kerravon
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Re: state of play

Post by kerravon »

EmuandCo wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:35 pm Wine's dlls are Windows compatible to some extent, and yes, we use quite a bunch of them, because why reinventing the wheel twice? Does this make us another fork of a fork of a forked Linux distro? Nope, luckily not.
I'm not suggesting that either. That's why I'm here, trying to use an alpha, instead of downloading one of the Linux distributions.
We use Windows drivers for anything and everything.

Just we can internally glue together some 3rd party libraries for reaching our goal makes it still not possible to use *nix drivers. Neither is that a goal we aim to reach.
You might have read something into my original message that wasn't intended.

I said you had access to the Linux drivers. Which is true - you have the C source code and you have a compatible (identical) license, so there is no barrier to reusing it.

I didn't mean to imply that it could be used unchanged. I don't know what percentage can be used though. I'm not really familiar with drivers.
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EmuandCo
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Re: state of play

Post by EmuandCo »

That's one of the problems. I can only talk about USB where I followed the whole story, but the general consensus was that using Linux drivers as a base to port is more difficult than rewriting them entriely. For our goals these drivers are not much more than a lil howto for the hardware and how to talk to it. The rest needs to be rewritten from scratch.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

If my post/reply offends or insults you, be sure that you know what sarcasm is...
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