crackez wrote: Webunny wrote:
crackez wrote:WOW after some years finally we get in line (I'll be impressed if it'll work)
Well, there is a minimum wait of 6 months.
It's still not quite 100%, but at least my translation can be browsed by now in the navigation-menu. The buttons there don't really match the ones on the english site, but I note many other translation don't match neither; it's like the buttons are placed in random order. Dunno what the deal is with that. Apart that, only the lil flag is missing. And will be for another 6 months, I'm sure.
But ah well, it's 'navigationable' now, at least.
It's clear the system for translating/adding stuff is complete rubbish, though. Certainly in the sense of user-friendliness.
Hope at least the OS itself be better than this(in it's final form, when this happen if it happen
I can't comment on the coding side of things, since I have not enough experience with that on itself. But I do know how organisations work (or ought to work), including non-profits, and I do know how websites work (or ought to work), and in those domains ROS isn't doing all to well, I must say. Again: I'm saying this in an objective, neutral stance, I'm not attacking anyone in particular. (It's annoying I have to explicitly mention this every time, or it's highly likely I get a post of someone feeling personally(?) offended).
Even communication is not done too well. Contrary to what is sometimes claimed, I tried to help out here and there, and tried to involve the community. But apart from the things I could and have done myself - on myself, completely - none came of it. Things like organising a (sub)voting for the push your app; well, no help was needed, it was my vote, so I could do with it as I pleased. Idem with the wikipages of the ROS Rig and the games testing: since only my own work was needed, it got done (which doesn't mean I don't appreciate or diminish the effort of other posters in it, because the help there is welcomed!). Point is, in the cases where you don't really need help or permission from the devs/PR, small (non-coding) projects are easily done.
But when you DO need help or permission from the 'higher ups', because otherwise the project stands still...well, it stands still. It takes a half year to change some buttons, for instance. The translation of the whole site was done by me in 3 weeks, and it was not like I was really pushing myself. But adding a few buttons could not be done by me, and took over 6 months. I made and remade a new newsletter, waited patiently for another 6 months, to then hear - after I ask about it once again - that it's scrapped ('but we like the idea'). And yes, the newsletter has been completely removed now, which is totally the opposite of what was the agreed upon intention. Worse, if I hadn't asked again, I wouldn't even have been notified my work was for naught. I also made a wallpapercontest; I asked in front if it had any use there too (no-one wants to be on an fools' errand, after all). I got permission, and after I made it, also in a reasonable time, and put it on JIRA...nothing anymore. Well, one question, to which I responded and asked if I should send high res pictures of which pictures, but I never hear anything of it anymore. No feedback at all. And it's not like it would take more than 2 minutes to write a pm of the devs/PR to send over the pictures, or a wetransfer link to them, or something. As said, communication and communtiy participation are obviously not the strong points of ROS/PR. And yes, they are busy and also have other r/l, but so do I. If they are so busy they can't spare half an hour in 6 months, they should delegate more, and make it so people CAN do stuff more on themselves. If I had the opportunity, the wallpapers, new newsletter, navigationbuttons etc. would long since have been there. but the real issue is diminishing the top-down attitude in favour of a bottom-up attitude, and give people more leeway in doing things themselves. Why is there any need for PR to set some buttons, for instance, if I already have proven myself by translating the whole site? If it's technical THAT difficult, why did one choose such a system, and why not change it? In fact, wasn't the whole point of the change to another site exactly to improve upon it? I'm pretty sure that, if the wikipages and voting contest somehow had to need an effort or permission from PR, it still wouldn't have been there neither. The thing to note, thus, is that if it's not about coding, it's perfectly possible to let people do more on themselves. It will certainly happen more rapidly, at least for those area's that individuals are interested in doing. I suggest, thus, a far more decentralised approach for such things. This goes against the centralised approach which is ingrained into ROS currently, I know. And mind you: there is nothing inherently wrong with a centralised approach, but then you have to make sure you have enough capable people doing all the the things that need to be done to maintain a fluently working site with good communication to your fanbase, as if it were a business dealing with their customers (fanbase). But this is not the case, and being short-handed is the nr.1 complaint for not being able to do so. Well, ok. But then go for the more decentralised approach, if you can't manage it well centrally.
As things are dealt with now, even for the point of mere communicating, it's wholly inadequate. The latest example is the bookkeeping-thingy I already pointed out in another thread. After much, much asking for, we did get some sort of explanation, mingled in with posts that said 'it isn't your business' (as if that were relevant from a stance of a moral obligation of a non-profit to show it's backers where their money went to. I did not ask it just to please me personally,; after all). I then asked whether it wouldn't be better if all the past fiscal years would be bundled together and conveniently placed on on page. To which was answered rather positively, but with the caveat that it would take time to make such a compilation, and that certain stuff still had to be translated, and one was very busy, and what not. Well, ok, I then offered to do so myself, even with the translation. One would think, if all the previous were the problem, and somebody does the work for you, one would be glad and say; ok, then, go ahead. But no such communication was received. In fact, no communication was received at all. and yes, I did pm the treasurer for it, and yes he DID read it. So why did I got no response at all? Either 'go ahead' or 'nope, we'll (won't) do it ourselves' - both are fine with me. But receiving no communication at all is extremely annoying. It takes 1 minute to respond to an offer of help. Don't tell me one needs 6 months for that as well. In another thread, another poster makes allusion to many fans getting frustrated. Well, this is an example for getting extremely frustrated. And because I otherwise get the response I 'seem to think ROS must haste themselves to please you' I often wait a long, long time before saying something about it (or else I'm 'pushy'). Here too, I waited for, what, a week or two by now to get any response? But let's be realistic here; it does NOT take that long to respond after you read something, EVEN if you're busy. And I agree: it's a pity I always have to complain about that (I'm sure some devs/PR are saying 'ah, webunny is whining again', but there would be no need to complain about it, if things worked as one reasonably might expect from an organisation and the active members in it) so often. But let's face it: if I don't get any response after 2-3 weeks, I will not get one after 6 months or a year neither - or only to hear the idea is 'liked' but for the rest nothing.
That said, all this is organisational in nature, and deals with communication and hierarchic-structural or other problems with(in) ROS (foundation), it has nothing to do with the quality of the code. In that respect, I have to say the OS is rather good and functional, considering it being alpha. I've been testing it on RH (a niche thusfar), and have no complaints (expectations have to be realistic for an alpha-realease, of course). There has also been considerable improvements made, since 0.3.15. With a new explorer, usb fully working and (hopefully) some extra widely used drivers auto-installed, I think the 0.4 will be a considerable improvement as well. So rest assured in regard to the OS. There is no need to be negative if it's not needed or warranted, and as far as the coding goes, imho there is little to be critical of, seen the complexity of coding a complete OS from scratch and the fact it's alpha.