Greek translation

Discuss translation of both ReactOS and the website here.

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justincase
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by justincase »

crackez wrote:I was familiar with RosCMS but the screenshot you've send seems to be even easier to do.
I'm just guessing that it's like that, I haven't actually seen it. (could someone who HAS seen it say something about what it looks like? maybe some screenshots?)
crackez wrote:I always DO 100% of translations myself, I never trust machines to do translations
I wasn't meaning to indicate anyone would become a translator, then use machine translation to fulfil that role. :? I meant that there are Drupal Modules which use services like Google Website Translator, and there are Drupal Modules which allow a person to input the translations, and that the ReactOS website is set up with a Module that uses real (human) translation rather than machine translation, and that I was assuming that that wasn't likely to change. So despite the fact that there are plenty of "Translation" modules for Drupal, I figured we could rule out any machine translation centric ones, leaving us with very few Drupal Modules that I would consider suitable for use on this site.
crackez wrote:So if "manual" translate means I do whole translation myself then I totally agree, I wouldn't chance that even if you wanted to.

So when we'll get into business? feel free to judge me(that goes to Greeks or people who speak Greek)
I think (assuming you still want to go through with it) you may still have to state that you agree to do any manual migration of Greek content that may be necessary if the ReactOS website ever switches either to a new CMS or a new version of the current one, with the understanding that if you don't it will be dropped, and no longer be available.
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

crackez
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Greek translation

Post by crackez »

justincase wrote:
crackez wrote:I was familiar with RosCMS but the screenshot you've send seems to be even easier to do.
I'm just guessing that it's like that, I haven't actually seen it. (could someone who HAS seen it say something about what it looks like? maybe some screenshots?)
crackez wrote:I always DO 100% of translations myself, I never trust machines to do translations
I wasn't meaning to indicate anyone would become a translator, then use machine translation to fulfil that role. :? I meant that there are Drupal Modules which use services like Google Website Translator, and there are Drupal Modules which allow a person to input the translations, and that the ReactOS website is set up with a Module that uses real (human) translation rather than machine translation, and that I was assuming that that wasn't likely to change. So despite the fact that there are plenty of "Translation" modules for Drupal, I figured we could rule out any machine translation centric ones, leaving us with very few Drupal Modules that I would consider suitable for use on this site.
crackez wrote:So if "manual" translate means I do whole translation myself then I totally agree, I wouldn't chance that even if you wanted to.

So when we'll get into business? feel free to judge me(that goes to Greeks or people who speak Greek)
I think (assuming you still want to go through with it) you may still have to state that you agree to do any manual migration of Greek content that may be necessary if the ReactOS website ever switches either to a new CMS or a new version of the current one, with the understanding that if you don't it will be dropped, and no longer be available.
So if everything is set, the only think missing is the "when" I can do it.

P.S. Hope you were tired/drunk or English isn't your native language :roll: :D
Z98 wrote:@Crackez: I already laid out under what terms I would be willing to give you translator access again. Please read more thoroughly.

@Webunny: What you're technically complaining about is Drupal's workflow. You cannot change that without moving to an entirely different CMS. I'm pretty sure you know what the chances of that happening are in the short term.
I quoted you so you'll notice it ..in case you didn't
Have a good day ;)

Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by Webunny »

Automatic translators are a help with translating huge swaps of texts, but if anyone is translating only based on that, he's an idiot (and certainly no translator).

It's good for having a first rough translation, and can save you time by that, but you ALWAYS have to correct the thing, since it's awful at the details in grammar or doesn't get the context in which a word was used. Leaving it like that is a pretty crappy translation, and, frankly, not really worth the name 'translation', at least not a 'good' one. It can annoy me without end when a fanmade subtitle is based solely on automatic translation; it's just a cheap way of avoiding any work while delivering subpar translation.

No, maybe, some day, it will become good enough that no-one sees the difference anymore, but that day hasn't come yet. For now, human translation is still superior.

justincase
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by justincase »

crackez wrote:P.S. Hope you were tired/drunk or English isn't your native language :roll: :D
I wasn't drunk (If I had been drunk, I don't think I would have bothered checking the ReactOS forums, let alone responding on them :roll:) and English is my native language, though I will admit that most of my posts here are written late at night. However I don't see why you "hope" that I was "tired/drunk" or that English isn't my native language. I've re-read what I wrote, and while I guess some of my sentences are long-winded and I occasionally use what might be considered an out-dated sentence structure, I really don't see anything wrong with it, my posts are leagues better than a lot of the stuff I see on the internet :lol: .
So, What's wrong with what I wrote? (or am I misunderstanding? was that part of the post meant to be directed at someone else?)
crackez wrote:So if everything is set, the only think missing is the "when" I can do it.
I can't tell if you've been given the translator's permissions yet or not, but if you haven't I'd suspect that it's because you haven't explicitly stated that you accept the conditions of the deal, namely that in the case where eventually the website requires manual migration to either a new CMS or a newer version of the current CMS you will personally take on the responsibility of migrating all Greek content over to it, with the understanding that if you do not, the Greek content will "be dropped", and thus not be present on the new iteration of the site.
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

crackez
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Greek translation

Post by crackez »

justincase wrote:
crackez wrote:P.S. Hope you were tired/drunk or English isn't your native language :roll: :D
I wasn't drunk (If I had been drunk, I don't think I would have bothered checking the ReactOS forums, let alone responding on them :roll:) and English is my native language, though I will admit that most of my posts here are written late at night. However I don't see why you "hope" that I was "tired/drunk" or that English isn't my native language. I've re-read what I wrote, and while I guess some of my sentences are long-winded and I occasionally use what might be considered an out-dated sentence structure, I really don't see anything wrong with it, my posts are leagues better than a lot of the stuff I see on the internet :lol: .
So, What's wrong with what I wrote? (or am I misunderstanding? was that part of the post meant to be directed at someone else?)
crackez wrote:So if everything is set, the only think missing is the "when" I can do it.
I can't tell if you've been given the translator's permissions yet or not, but if you haven't I'd suspect that it's because you haven't explicitly stated that you accept the conditions of the deal, namely that in the case where eventually the website requires manual migration to either a new CMS or a newer version of the current CMS you will personally take on the responsibility of migrating all Greek content over to it, with the understanding that if you do not, the Greek content will "be dropped", and thus not be present on the new iteration of the site.
Don't get offended I was just joking, English isn't obviously my native language but I can't help noticing the "than machine translation, and that I was assuming that that wasn't likely to change" and "with the understanding that if you don't it will be dropped, and no longer be available." :P

------------------------

So if it needs to be formally stated I say the following: I ACCEPT the deal and I'll be responsible for doing the Greek translation (be easy on me regarding timing, I'll try my best to keep up)

justincase
Posts: 440
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by justincase »

crackez wrote:Don't get offended I was just joking, English isn't obviously my native language but I can't help noticing the "than machine translation, and that I was assuming that that wasn't likely to change" and "with the understanding that if you don't it will be dropped, and no longer be available." :P
The only (slightly) offensive part of that was the inclusion of having been drunk as a possible explanation. Don't worry about it :P.
Actually that "that that" is perfectly acceptable English, as the two that's have different meanings.
... As I was having difficulty writing a response to that without making it grammatically confusing (due to all the thats that I had in it) I will point you to a relatively simple explanation that I found by Googling "that that" that I thought did a good job of explaining it. http://english.stackexchange.com/a/3426

And if you want to read a grammatically correct sentence that really takes some concentration to understand, try this ;):
"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo."
I reserve the right to ignore any portion of any post if I deem it not constructive or likely to cause the discussion to degenerate.

crackez
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Greek translation

Post by crackez »

justincase wrote:
crackez wrote:Don't get offended I was just joking, English isn't obviously my native language but I can't help noticing the "than machine translation, and that I was assuming that that wasn't likely to change" and "with the understanding that if you don't it will be dropped, and no longer be available." :P
The only (slightly) offensive part of that was the inclusion of having been drunk as a possible explanation. Don't worry about it :P.
Actually that "that that" is perfectly acceptable English, as the two that's have different meanings.
... As I was having difficulty writing a response to that without making it grammatically confusing (due to all the thats that I had in it) I will point you to a relatively simple explanation that I found by Googling "that that" that I thought did a good job of explaining it. http://english.stackexchange.com/a/3426

And if you want to read a grammatically correct sentence that really takes some concentration to understand, try this ;):
"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo."
:lol:

About the real issue(on topic), do we have anything new? or just another dead end? :roll:

Z98
Release Engineer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 8:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Greek translation

Post by Z98 »

I've been preoccupied with a fairly complicated issue at work, you'll need to hold on for a bit before I can enable the necessary stuff.

crackez
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Greek translation

Post by crackez »

Z98 wrote:I've been preoccupied with a fairly complicated issue at work, you'll need to hold on for a bit before I can enable the necessary stuff.
okie dokie

Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by Webunny »

Z98 wrote:I've been preoccupied with a fairly complicated issue at work, you'll need to hold on for a bit before I can enable the necessary stuff.
While you're at it, could you finally have a look into the 'navigation' menu issue too? Or at least say if I can use the 'add content' button there?

Z98
Release Engineer
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Contact:

Re: Greek translation

Post by Z98 »

You cannot. The fact that you see it at all is one of the problems with how permissive the current system is.

Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by Webunny »

Z98 wrote:You cannot. The fact that you see it at all is one of the problems with how permissive the current system is.
Well, there is *something* needed to translate the navigation-menu buttons there. The real problem here isn't that it's permissive - at least, from my standpoint, in this particular instance. I haven't been using that over-permissive button after all - and we're 4 months further.

Look, it's rather straightforward. On the French and German site, the buttons/links under 'navigation' ARE translated. So clearly, there must be a way to translate them. My question is: how? I mean, c'mon.

How did the others do it? And if it's somebody else that did it and they couldn't do it themselves, then I'm asking for that 'somebody else' to do it as well with my translation. As it is now, all pages are translated, people wanting to go to the Dutch page can...see the main page...but then can't navigate to any of the other pages! That makes the whole thing completely useless.

I understand that there are issues with the system. That's all dandy and all that - or a pity and what not. :P But the fact remains I just want to get those buttons there (and translated), so people can navigate through the site and actually SEE all the translated pages if they want to. It's done before, so there must be a way. What's that way?

The security/broad permission problem...well, you can still look into it afterwards, or at the same time, or whatever. There is no reason why it couldn't get translated/added navigation buttons/links *before* you figured out how to rectify your system (because, let's face it, otherwise my translated part will not be there for the next year neither; what have I been translating the site for, then?) Even with all the problematic permissiveness, I didn't botch the site up, so rectifying it isn't like a priority *in that regard*.

Somebody out there must know how to get and translate the navigation menu. Let's get that over with, and you still have all the time in the world to get a new, improved or I-don't-know-what system on there. I'm just not seeing why this last 1% that holds up all the 99% other work I've done so far can't be finished. The 'permissiveness' isn't holding THAT back. Whatever permissions I have, I had them from the start. It wasn't a problem to get the pages translated, so why would it be a problem to translate the buttons? And if it really can't be done by me: who did it with the other translations?


Sorry if I seem to be so insistent about it, but let's not forget I've been asking this for the last 4-5 months now. It's not like I have been impatient, thus. It just annoys me that the whole thing is virtually useless because the very last cherry on top of the cake just doesn't materialise, even after 4 months. In that time, I could have made 16 sites myself from scratch. And probably 400 with Strato. It's just insane that it takes this long just to figure out how to add/translate some navigationbuttons.

crackez
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Greek translation

Post by crackez »

Z98 wrote:You cannot. The fact that you see it at all is one of the problems with how permissive the current system is.
I expect that translation is still not yet possible, any ETA?

Webunny
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Greek translation

Post by Webunny »

It's been almost half a year by now... and it's still not rectified.

I know it's all 'too few resources' and all that, but this is getting ridiculous. It can't be it takes this long just to make some links/buttons under navigation. All this 'too much permission' stuff doesn't really cut it; it's just the (Dutch) navigation-menu that should be made to work. All the rest can be looked at later. There is no reason why people wanting to read the site in Dutch should have to wait doing that for months on end, just because there is something wrong with the permission-settings that I got.

Revoke the permissions, then. Just make the navigation buttons work. Analyse it afterwards.

crackez
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:17 am

Re: Greek translation

Post by crackez »

Webunny wrote:It's been almost half a year by now... and it's still not rectified.

I know it's all 'too few resources' and all that, but this is getting ridiculous. It can't be it takes this long just to make some links/buttons under navigation. All this 'too much permission' stuff doesn't really cut it; it's just the (Dutch) navigation-menu that should be made to work. All the rest can be looked at later. There is no reason why people wanting to read the site in Dutch should have to wait doing that for months on end, just because there is something wrong with the permission-settings that I got.

Revoke the permissions, then. Just make the navigation buttons work. Analyse it afterwards.
Why don't they use an open source website system with translation features? ..I mean there are stuff out there, there's no point in re-inventing the wheel

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