STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

The place to bring up any design issues, or post your own creations

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andrewweb
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by andrewweb »

FlyingIsFun1217 wrote:403's, boiiiiiii

Personally, I HATE Freeweb7. Once the old management left, it all went downhill. Check out Byethost. Fairly decent free host.

FlyingIsFun1217
Check out 110mb.com - no ads, because there main site has 1 text ad and 1 banner, and you can pay for upgrades.
Free PHP 5, (pay one off for MySQl... this is why its free and fast- none gets free mysql). they have 5GB space and 300GB bandwidth. one of the best out there. although their ftp server is swamped a bit

Haos
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Haos »

Andrewweb, dont post several messages of yours one after another, rather that edit and use single post.

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Black_Fox
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Black_Fox »

There's a plugin for phpBB3, which automatically joins subsequent posts by one user 8)

artguy10
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by artguy10 »

A while ago I was working on making some icons (along with one or two others), but I didn't get enough support (you could even say I was discouraged), and it seemed like the person in charge (user mf) instead wanted to meet with a group of designers in person for that stuff. So now, it makes me not really want to put effort into something, for free, that's not going to be used for years, if ever. I mean, take a look at http://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic. ... a&start=60 where I put lots of effort into starting the mockups for a nice UI -- ReactOS doesn't look like that, and chances are it never will. So I can only hope that some official developers will designate people and set up a *real* design team that accepts members. Anything unofficial is too risky.

Bond007s
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Bond007s »

I also think that something unofficial is the wrong route.

I saw ArtGuys work when made. It looked great at the time.

Perhaps a seperate project could be made to build upon the ReactOS New Explorer. If the devs approve and it works in Windows first, ReactOS second then it could be imported like we import things from many different sources already. I would suggest as the Devs always have said if it is not in Windows it will not make it into ReactOS, we really should target MS latest OS, Windows 7. The GUI is beautiful so far. It looks quite promising. We could develop our GUI for Vista or Windows 7 beta (as long as that works, August). Windows 7 is built on Vista and uses much of the same GUI of Vista but improved considerable and much much more logical.

Well that is my 2 cents worth. If it is to be a GUI specifically only for ReactOS then we need a GUI team created by the Devs (Not saying more members could not be added). If it is going to be a GUI that will work on Windows first, ReactOS second (providing devs or bug submissions add the functionality) then a third party team/project seems to be needed. I like the later as this may allow immediate work and allow the GUI to not reference ReactOS this or ReactOS that but cleaner more like Windows. It will also allow members to develop in freedom.

Haos
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Haos »

We actually have a new explorer. Not using it yet, as our shell lacks necessary functionality.

cuttysark
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by cuttysark »

We don't need Developer's green light to create a Windows 95/98/XP Theme, and study design solutions... Don't expect an implementation but, all help is welcome! You have in the internet, hundreds of Windows family restyling ideas that could suite the community… Post them, create yours, share!

Developers are meant to develop. Designers are meant to design. A product or idea such as React OS doesn’t extinguish itself with the developers. An empowered and active community will help React OS achieve our expectations in all fields, such as performance, stability, compatibility, design, popularity and freedom!

Smiley
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Smiley »

Bond007s wrote:Perhaps a seperate project could be made to build upon the ReactOS New Explorer
I'm sorry but explorer_new can't be developed separated ny reactos. In fact it works quite well in windows but in reactos it doesn't work beacause there are many thing unimlemented in shell32.

Before any designier's idea is applied, there must exist a stable operationg system that can assist all these ideas . Currently reactos isn't ready and its core needs heavy fixing

xChaos
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by xChaos »

heh. Did i ever say #1 that this design team was to be official?? Did I? Didn't think so. And this is OPEN SOURCE. Which means, in case people haven't realized, that ANYONE AND EVERYONE CAN WORK ON IT. :D PLEASE don't try putting people down for their work! If you do that, then who the hell will want to join us and work on this?! We're supposed to work together. And by the way, just because im the cleaner andrew, doesn't mean i can't screw around with code on my own time! ;)

Mr_Histamine
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Mr_Histamine »

Haven't looked at your site yet, but I'm interested in joining the "unofficial" design team if you guy(s) haven't disbanded yet.

Also, how serious are you about coordinating UI design (like element-by-element design; or it'd-be-kinda-neat-if design)? I'd think it'd be most beneficial to both the designers and programmers to start off with a clear (and detailed) way of communicating viable UIs.

Btw, if you're looking for a place to set up a team website for free, you could try Google Sites.

Smiley
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Smiley »

Well, lately there was a progress in supporting themes. Here is a screenshot of Reactos with themes enabled and instructions to enable themes in Reactos:
http://danielreimer.5x.to/sblog/blog.php?id=14

Amost all controls are painted very well. There are still some problems with toolbars but I'm sure that they will be fixed in the future.
However there is still much to do. As you can see non-clent areas of windows ( title bar, borders, scrollbars) aren't themed yet. I have started to examine how uxtheme works in xp and win2003 and the progress is fairly good. Hopefully If we implement the rest of uxtheme.dll (what we have now is the same with wine -- wine doesn't care about painting borders. it lets linux do the hard work), we will have full themes support :o .
Except this we also have to make the shell (aka explorer) theme aware. Our shell is in an awfull state and I'm sure that If you ask the devs to do it, they wil tell you to wait till the shell will work good-enough. (it will take much time :( )

Before you go far away I'll tell you that it will still take ages to support desktop composition like Aero. It needs a completely new model in the graphics subsystem so for now lets target xp/2003 :D .

Just a note: win2003 has themes support but it is disabled.


This was just a short explanation of the progress to supporting themes.


Speaking of design, I want to know what do you mean with a design. Does it include just icons, backround images, cursors and themes?
All the above could work without any problem in Reactos.
But if you thing that it may include changes in the shell, a new logon screen, a different boot image (or an animated one!) the answer from the developers will be: don't rush. They will surelly add support for them in the future. The reason is that it has to be done in the same way it is done in windows.

Mr_Histamine
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Mr_Histamine »

Wow, thanks for the info! :D

I really do realize where priorities lie when it comes to the development of ReactOS. I agree that they should focus on getting the shell to where it needs to be; themes won't mean a thing unless the framework behind it is (somewhat) rock solid.

In the meantime (in parallel), I think it would be a great idea to start a design team that'll focus on developing the look and feel of ReactOS. While there are effects and designs I'd like to see implemented, I realize the difficulty in making them work. Adopting an evolutionary work flow, I think, will allow the idea to morph into its final implementation, without consuming a huge chunk of the coding team's time and energy.

And in terms of what I mean by design; I also consider the interaction between the user and the software systems as part of the design element.

Using the evolutionary model, here's an example:
Say we are designing an icon - the My Computer icon. We would, of course, design the graphic associated with the My Computer shortcut. We would also specify how the icon will react when hovered over, clicked, double-clicked, right-clicked, selected, etc.

Let's say this is how we'd like our icon to act:
hover - subtle throbbing of icon, display a tooltip with the item's name for 10 seconds.
clicked - ripple effect away from icon outline; activate selected state.
double-clicked - ripple effect away from icon outline, activate selected state, display "Loading..." in ring instead of file name.
right-clicked - ripple effect away from icon outline, activate selected state, dim icon, bring up context menu.
selected (if mouse hovering, add throbbing) - marquee first 50 characters in its name, in a ring surrounding the icon.

Currently it does this:
hover - do nothing; display tooltip.
clicked - do nothing; activate selected state.
double-clicked - do nothing, activate selected state, then deselect it.
right-clicked - do nothing; bring up context menu.
selected - highlight icon in a user defined color.

After first-round talks with the programmers, we achieve this:
hover - highlight icon in a user defined color; display tooltip.
clicked - do nothing; activate selected state.
double-clicked - do nothing, activate selected state, then deselect it.
right-clicked - activate selected state, dim icon, bring up context menu.
selected - surround icon in a ring, display the first 50 characters of the file name as stationary text.

After the next talk...:
hover - slight size increase of icon; display tooltip.
clicked - change the color of the icon's outline (i.e. red, yellow, green, etc.); activate selected state.
double-clicked - do nothing, activate selected state, then deselect it.
right-clicked - change the color of the icon's outline, activate selected state, dim icon, bring up context menu.
selected - surround icon in a ring, display the first 50 characters of the file name as stationary text.

etc...

That example was kind of over the top (and sorry it's so long), but that's what I'm thinking when I mean "serious" design. Other aspects of user interaction would fall under this as well (i.e. window interactions, property managers, file navigation, etc.).

GoBusto
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by GoBusto »

I'd suggest that users who are TTLY SRS about user interface design have a quick glance at the "patterns based design" approach suggested by Tidwell:

http://designinginterfaces.com/
http://www.mit.edu/~jtidwell/common_ground.html

Patterns based design is a useful way to maintain consistency and intuitiveness within a user interface.

Mr_Histamine
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Mr_Histamine »

Thanks, I'll take a look at those. I thought this book was pretty good as well: Extreme UI Design.

From what I've read - I'm beginning to think that, if you design the interface using common sense combined with logical flow, you should be able to achieve an interface accessible to a majority of the users.

Witch
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Re: STARTING A DESIGN TEAM

Post by Witch »

xChaos wrote:Well...i figure it like this.... We already know that we're no where near ready to begin work on the GUI.. but, the GUI needs alot of planning and development... i figure we start a team and work on it. So, if all goes well, maybe we'll have the GUI ready when then plan to spruce it up.it can't hurt, can it?

...
...

and provide tools to people who want to help but can't program... i figure that this is a big project, and everyone should be allowed to help...

...
...

cheers,
xChaos
I like the way you think! :mrgreen:


FlyingIsFun1217 wrote:
kevinski wrote:I suppose that I'm curious as to how official this would be. I don't mind sharing ideas, but I don't necessarily see how this would be much different than just posting in the design forum now. Still, I'm all for the idea.
Z98 wrote:Not official at all.
Which is what makes me laugh when people are 'recruiting' for these sort of things...

FlyingIsFun1217
  • Nothing personal against Flying I think his comment is a healthy one. I'll bet that many people are thinking the same thing.
    But some old timers at "Ubuntuforums.org::Programming" once explained to me that Open Source Projects is propelled by meritocracy.
  • It doesn't matter if initiatives are official or not. Good ideas will stand the test of time and bad ideas will wane away like nothing has happened.
    Competent people will get integrated automatically and incompetent people will be filtered away naturally by the wonderful law of meritocracy.
No pressure xChaos! :)

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