Clinging to Windows Classic

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vicmarcal
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by vicmarcal » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:58 pm

kevinski wrote:I'd assume that most UI elements have border properties that can be set similarly to how you'd set scrollbar properties in Cascading Style Sheets. Do I know that for sure, though? No.
Then try to find it.Anyway i see there is a Design Team.He will help u much than me ;)
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GoBusto
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by GoBusto » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:00 pm

kevinski wrote:I was pretty sure that I'd read an article on how to create Windows XP icons, and I found it. It's actually straight from Microsoft, and it does mention AVI's at the end.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms997636.aspx

From reading the article, it appears as though the bitmaps are somehow exported in AVI format for use as icons. Or am I misinterpreting it?
From that page:
Microsoft Windows XP uses 8-bit AVIs. The process for creating .avi files is the same as icons—you prepare the pieces in Photoshop then drag them into GMG.
It says that creating .AVIs for use as part of Windows is similar to the process of creating .ICOs. They're not actually related, so don't worry about it.

All you'll need to do to make an icon is to:

+ Create an image (preferably as an .SVG file).
+ Export it as a series of .BMP files (in each of the formats required for Vista compatability).
+ Use a BMP-to-ICO program to glue all of those .BMP files into one .ICO file (You should be able to find one of these on the Internet somewhere).

EDIT: I used to use a program called IconShop a long time ago. You could try using that for step #3: http://users.telenet.be/liontech/Downloads.htm
Last edited by GoBusto on Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vicmarcal
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by vicmarcal » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:03 pm

heheh Gobusto you were faster than me ;)
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kevinski
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by kevinski » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:10 pm

Any possibility that ReactOS might eventually just support SVG's as icons? Or PNG's, as Linux does (I believe)?
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GoBusto
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by GoBusto » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:14 pm

kevinski wrote:Any possibility that ReactOS might eventually just support SVG's as icons? Or PNG's, as Linux does (I believe)?
You'll probably have to Ask A Dev™, but I believe that it's unlikely for (vector) .SVG files to be directly supported, since the Windows GDI uses (pixelmap) DIB/.BMP based rendering internally. PNGs are basically just BMPs stored in a different format, though, so perhaps.

EDIT: Technically, a series of .BMP images could be generated from an .SVG file automatically when it is loaded, but A) This would require a dev to implement such functionality and B) I'm not sure how Easy/Clean it would be to do such a thing, since I don't know a whole load about Windows-specific programming (hence why I prefer to file bug reports, rather than contribute code).

In other news, http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/I ... Candidates

kevinski
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by kevinski » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:28 pm

Wow, those icons are pretty nice, although I can't say that the GIF and PNG ones make sense.
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LRN
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by LRN » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:34 pm

ReactOS needs vecror graphic library to support SVGs. Such library is not a part of the kernel. Shell (explorer) may, on the other hand, have such thing. But since ReactOS team focuses on kernel, and shell will be (i hope) replaceable in the end, i don't think that ReactOS explorer will grow beyond that. Or maybe it will. I don't really care. As long as there is an option to replace default classic explorer with something fancy - i'll be happy with it.

By the way, this is one of the places where Windows and Linux are completely different. Linux uses scalable vector graphics for icons, Windows uses a series of raster pictures for the same purpose. And to be honest, each approach has it's pros and cons. For example, while not being scalable, ICOs are optimized by hand for different depths and different resolutions. Vector images can be scaled to any resolution and rendered at any depth, but the result may not be perfect.

kevinski
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by kevinski » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:45 am

Wow, something tells me that ReactOS is gonna be even further from its goal with the release of Windows 7. Honestly, I must say that I'm surprised that they're even giving Paint a makeover. :shock:
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RaptorEmperor
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by RaptorEmperor » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:36 pm

I'm kind of scared to jump into the conversation, considering how vicious it was starting to get :lol:.

I don't mind Windows Classic. I'm using it right now. However, it is my opinion we should have something more modern, since most users, especially younger ones, aren't going to be familiar with the Windows Classic interface. My nephews, who are growing up using Windows XP, probably look at Windows Classic like I look at the old Windows 3.11 interface: very, very old. We have to develop ReactOS with the consideration that most new computer users are going to be younger, and most of them won't be familiar with 1990's interface design but rather Windows XP and Vista. The operating system should look visually attractive to draw new users and develop brand loyalty. Kids love "modern-looking" stuff, and if Windows looks better, they'll go for it instead. Most Windows sales are made pre-packaged with new systems, so we have to be more convincing to draw users to switch. If we, intentionally or unintentionally, restrict ourselves to the techie/open-source set, we risk winding up in the same niche status as Linux or BSD.

That being said, I don't ramble on it much because the GUI is just one part of the operating system, and the core of the system should be up and running before we worry about its face. Once we reach a state where ReactOS is stable enough for everyday use, then those of us who are interested in changing the interface can organize and do it ourselves. I have trouble imagining that all of the developers are so dead-set against developing an alternate GUI for ReactOS that we couldn't get one or two to help. Remember, this is open-source, so if there's something about ReactOS that we don't like, we can always tweak it towards our own preferences. How many distros of Linux are there right now? Everybody's bickering over this like there's only going to be ReactOS and nobody else will be able to change it.

Another thing to remember is that the current GUI is scheduled to be replaced, so before we discuss changing the GUI we should have the new one up and running. It would be pointless to modify the current GUI just for it to be replaced when ReactOS is more stable.

Trying to pressure the developers to change the interface when they have their hands full with the kernel is probably isn't taking into account the sheer amount of effort that's necessary to get ReactOS running. I've been keeping track of this project since 2006 or so, and when I try a new version I'm not checking how well the visuals look (the same, always), I'm testing software compatibility and how much I can do with the system before it crashes. The more usable ReactOS is the more I can tell progress is being made, but if I'm a computer novice I wouldn't know to look for that, and all I'd see is a primitive-looking desktop. Since I toy around with older hardware and have some familiarity with computers I understand the memory benefits of sticking to a simpler interface. However, for my own personal use I would use something a little "warmer" than what we're using right now. To my experience eye candy is more attractive to novice users than techies, so I guess you could say it's a bit of a cultural difference, in terms of computer use, between developers and beginning users we need to sort out. I'm not sure if folks are trying to view this issue from the other side's perspective.

I hope that isn't too much to read. :)

RaptorEmperor
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by RaptorEmperor » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:46 pm

Oh, by the way, when will the new explorer be implemented? I forgot to ask.

vicmarcal
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by vicmarcal » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:56 pm

it´s implemented.It works nice in Windows,but a major bug stops it working in ROS.
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kevinski
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by kevinski » Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:42 am

The more that I read about Windows 7, the more concerned I am for ReactOS. It isn't even about appearance anymore. Windows 7 is such a drastic departure from even Windows Vista from a functionality perspective that makes more sense for ReactOS to take a similar direction. Again, I don't even feel as though this is even about copying Windows. Really, ReactOS will eventually need to differentiate itself from Windows, and Windows 7 is gonna be the one to beat. A lot of people are saying that it's everything that Vista should've been...and it's only in the beta stages.
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SdC
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by SdC » Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:50 am

kevinski wrote:... A lot of people are saying that it's everything that Vista should've been...and it's only in the beta stages.
what you're seeing is the MS promotional machine in action. "leaked" beta? yeah right. MS is fuelling a hype so Vista will be quickly forgotten
Really, ReactOS will eventually need to differentiate itself from Windows
Why? All it needs to be is a kernel and API so it can run Windows applications, nothing more. It is already different in that it is open source and people have freedom to create distro's where Windows is and always will be one0-size-fits-all.

Aape
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by Aape » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:53 am

On Windows 7: It's more Vista SP2 than anything. Yeah it has a lot of improvements under the hood, but unless you're a developer you won't really care about these. The new taskbar is pretty nice, but that's just about it. I know I'll get "BUT IT'S ONLY A BETA" responses to this, but my judgment on it right now is this: It's better than Vista in name only and it's certainly nowhere near worth its inevitable $400 price tag.

As for the beta itself, it's not very stable right now, though it is certainly fast. The later releases after this will probably be focused more on stability, and when you gain stability, you usually sacrifice speed. So the only real purpose for the existence of this beta is to get tech bloggers to rave about "Oh look Windows 7 is so much faster than Vista hooray!", even though it likely won't be the case with the release version.

And about that whole "ReactOS doesn't need to be anything more than a Kernel and an API", that's a dangerous road to walk down. You can't bet your project's future on the hope that someone will fork it and make a functional version, you have to tend to your users yourself. Remember: A project needs its users far more than the users need the project...

kevinski
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Re: Clinging to Windows Classic

Post by kevinski » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:14 pm

ReactOS is different because it's open-source? Yikes. Really, considering the fact that Windows 7 is going to be much, much more than "Vista SP2" (Really, read some reviews about it.), I don't think that churning out an open-source version of maybe Windows 2000 Professional is going to cut it. I love Win2K, but there are numerous reasons that I no longer use it, the most prominent of which is the fact that it's NO LONGER RELEVANT.

Regarding Windows 7's speed, I've heard that it's almost as fast as - if not faster than - XP. While Vista is certainly more of a resource hog than XP, I don't consider it to be slow (aside from when copying files and whatnot, oddly). Most poor application performance can be blamed on the application developers. Vista's resource usage, while a bit on the steep side, is still remarkably efficient. While I've heard that Vista can't be installed on anything with less than 1GB of RAM, I used the pre-release versions on a computer with a 1.7GHz P4 and 512MB of RAM, and Vista was quite snappy on it. Sure, I was almost always at 100% CPU usage, but damn...apps responded and launched more quickly than in XP on the same system. Considering the positive reviews of Windows 7 thus far, I'd say that ReactOS has its work cut out for it. Really, it needs something that'll helpit to differentiate itself from Windows. Otherwise, it's gonna get buried.
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