Importance of UI

The place to bring up any design issues, or post your own creations

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Read first, then answer: Do you agree with me?

Yes
43
91%
No
4
9%
 
Total votes: 47

mf
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Post by mf » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:07 am

Of course regular users shouldn't be able to lock the screen. Only logout and allow for a user switch. Where admins should be able to truly lock the screen and allow ONLY a login to the currently logged in user.

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Post by MadRat » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:37 am

Yes, the user should be able to lock it. Admins can always over-ride the user login to unlock a PC screen. Which begs the question as to why not just Fast-User Switch to an Admin session rather than log a person off completely just so the admin can come in...

And when I get a chance I'll post a proposed start menu in a jpg flavour.
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Crappish
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Post by Crappish » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:07 am

mf wrote:Of course regular users shouldn't be able to lock the screen. Only logout and allow for a user switch. Where admins should be able to truly lock the screen and allow ONLY a login to the currently logged in user.
Regular users should be able to lock the screen as some companies use the principle that you have to lock your computer when you leave from it. Nevertheless, I would still put it under crtl+alt+del as it is power user function and is not necessary for regular user. It takes only couple of second to press crtl+alt+del +w (that's the NT way, if I remember correcetly).
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Crappish
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Post by Crappish » Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:36 am

Stead wrote:i don't know if its just me, but i think crappish seems to be really into making reactos user friendly, would it be to much to ask for crappish to bring up basic designs for the most common parts of reactos? developers don't have to accept any of it, but if one person can make the design of the screens throughout reactos, you have that nice consistant feel which i for one am a big fan of! one of the many reasons i've never liked linux (sorry for mentioning :p)

or create a standard idea for the control panel applets, as i guess most of hte interface would be through those...
I guess could try to put something together, although not until next weekend, since I have something else on my workbench atm which needs my full focus.
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Crappish
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Post by Crappish » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:35 pm

Ok. I had a brief discussion about this in IRC (with arty) and it seems that I should also code the UI in order it to become reality. As I hardly see no point for utter waste of time by designing UI that will never be used I'm still considering wheter or not I'll come around to do it.

Although, like someone (Harteex) suggested, it would help if I could find a coder, or two, to help me with the UI. My situation, at the moment, is such that I won't be involved to any additional coding that I'm in right now. Such a large scale UI design would be nice refreshment for the basic UI & application design that I do every day. Although UI design is also time consuming project it's not even nearly as time consuming as coding. And you, pretty much, aren't binded to certain place with it. So, I could be game.

So, any willing UI coders, that could consider "working for me", around? If so, step forward, please.

The job would be pretty much code anything that has to do with the UI I design, as I really don't want to get involved to any additional coding. I have plenty of my own. I could provide some graphics (additional graphics are welcome) and you would participate the UI design, with me, as of the voice of the code. :) (Of course any opinions are welcome) But the catch is, in order to this to come together I would need to have the last word, if such is needed. Of course such situations would be avoided by discussing about the matter. :wink:
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Post by Floyd » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:27 am

crappish wrote: ]So, any willing UI coders, that could consider "working for me", around? If so, step forward, please
well, if all you need is the actual window designs, and layouts, etc and you could use visual c++ code, i'd do it in visual studio (my programming skills are limited to php and javascript).
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mf
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Post by mf » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:47 pm

Floyd wrote:well, if all you need is the actual window designs, and layouts, etc and you could use visual c++ code, i'd do it in visual studio (my programming skills are limited to php and javascript).
*buzz* I'm sorry, but that answer is incorrect. ;) The only system-integral part of ReactOS that is written in C++ is Explorer, and the rest is all ANSI C. Also, Visual Studio refuses to open most of the relevant source files, since it can't find any dependancies.

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Post by Floyd » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:09 am

mf wrote:*buzz* I'm sorry, but that answer is incorrect. ;) The only system-integral part of ReactOS that is written in C++ is Explorer, and the rest is all ANSI C. Also, Visual Studio refuses to open most of the relevant source files, since it can't find any dependancies.
will i said vsc++ simply because that's what i've used in the past. again, i will gladly contribute GUI code if another way for me to do so is presented. suggestions?
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AcetoliNe
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Post by AcetoliNe » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:23 am

I've been silently following this thread for some time now and I must make a confession: I'm confused.

Everyone seems to have their own idea about what UI (and GUI) seems to be.

If by designing the UI you mean the overal window form (where buttons go, where the title bar goes, etc...) then there is no need for 'design'. Just do what windows does. This is a windows clone, isn't it?

If you mean stuff like the UI for system configurations (control panel, display settings, etc...) or shell-type stuff (file manager, start menu, etc...) then 'design' comes into question. In this respect, however, desing is quite different from coding. Design means laying out the basic way everything will look, so that programmers can keep that in mind when actually sitting down and writing it. In this respect, designing it will not mean it'll just pop into reality.

A UI department would greatly be of help in this scenario. Enforcing a UI will make developers (who would rather just do things their own way) do what they're told.

If you ask me, I'd say just stick to the way windows does it.
But if you're really serious about designing a good UI, you must realize that it must be what the user wants. If you're following me, the best way to design a UI is not to start a war between two people saying 'the way I want it is better'. The proper way is to actually TALK to users, and see what they want.
The latter is something that has been greatly overlooked in the current design of reactos. Just come over and say, 'I want this feature' and you'll have a billion people (developers and community members alike) shouting things like 'I don't like it' to 'It can't be done'.

TALK to users, see what they want, and then design it. Design is more of a statistical problem than a programmatical one.

caveman LIKES UI.
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Crappish
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Post by Crappish » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:01 pm

First of all, as UI design is alot more than just placing the buttons there are much other things to play with, i.e. behaviourism, error handling. The "button placement" just is easier for people to grasp I think that's why all UI conversations always end up to discuss looks of the project.

Secondly, I don't think nobody expects the UI just to pop out there. That's why I am proposing the UI section so that there could be coders who would focus solely on UI progress.

And it is not aimed to be Windows clone, as far as I know, but as "another Windows" which aims to fix the issues Windows has. Hence there is a place to improve the UI as well. Like I have said, he ground rules of UI should be windows-like, however this does not stop the UI for evolving.

And by the way, there is no need to separate UI and GUI, I just tried to make a point by using different terms. I think everyone knows what you are talking about wheter you speak of UI or GUI.


Next, I'm more or less to be crucified over this, but here we go...

Do you realize that, the things that user wants, are seldom any good for for the user in the long run. This may sound like UI designer's talk but that's the way it is and that's the freaky way human mind works.
Now, don't get me wrong, of course you have to listen the users but the thing that you have to listen is what they want to do with the software now how. Then evaluate which statements really bear the power to become feasible features. The point is, people seldom know what they really need.

Intuitions are great for UI design BUT intuition is not always right.

For starters, there are couple of good articles about this issue at Gamasutra. If you are insterested, I suggest you start from there. (Although it is a site devoted to game development it still has some interesting articles, every now and then, about behaviourism and UI design.) Also Microsoft has some UI design related material.

Personally I would create initial UI where all of the behaviourism etc. would be in place and then start kind of a public cognitive testing for the UI which would gather suggestions and observataions.

Also I would like to see on-demand interface as a part of the UI, as it has achieved nice scores on user testing.
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Dr. Fred
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Post by Dr. Fred » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:32 pm

crappish wrote:For starters, there are couple of good articles about this issue at Gamasutra. If you are insterested, I suggest you start from there. (Although it is a site devoted to game development it still has some interesting articles, every now and then, about behaviourism and UI design.) Also Microsoft has some UI design related material.
Could you give a link please ?

Crappish
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Post by Crappish » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:15 pm

Dr. Fred wrote:
crappish wrote:For starters, there are couple of good articles about this issue at Gamasutra. If you are insterested, I suggest you start from there. (Although it is a site devoted to game development it still has some interesting articles, every now and then, about behaviourism and UI design.) Also Microsoft has some UI design related material.
Could you give a link please ?
http://www.gamasutra.com/ Check under features
http://research.microsoft.com/
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Dr. Fred
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Post by Dr. Fred » Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:48 pm

crappish wrote:http://www.gamasutra.com/ Check under features
http://research.microsoft.com/
Yes I know it it's kind of hard to find something about UI Design in that mass of articals.

AcetoliNe
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Post by AcetoliNe » Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:56 pm

Code: Select all

First of all, as UI design is alot more than just placing the buttons there are much other things to play with, i.e. behaviourism, error handling.
Exactly. The consistent behaviour of windows controls is one of the things that I love about the OS.
Do you realize that, the things that user wants, are seldom any good for for the user in the long run
I must admit that this is, insanely, true. However, not listening to users won't give you any users in the first place, let alone in the long run.

Let me make myself more specific. By listening to users, I mean listening to stuff like, "Hey, whatever you do, I gotta have this foobar feature!" and then keeping that in mind in the final design.

You can't deny it. Microsoft itself uses this strategy for software design. Sure, it ends out krap, but at least it sells.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not asking for us to commit the same errors as microsoft (that's the whole purpose of react anyway; to do right where ms has done wrong), and I'm definately not trying to turn ReactOS into the same kind of wrongware that Windows is. I'm just saying that this is the way to go if we are at all to attract users.
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Duck
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Feature idea thread

Post by Duck » Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:34 pm

Make a forum topic under for UI design.

Under it make an idea posting topic + stickie with ideas.

All ideas must be documented so that they can be easily understandable.

Make a stickie where the well documented (all of them, like it or not) features/corrections to windows are listed.


Im not talking about the bsae of the UI but cool features may come from the mind of the most unsuspected user :)

Its always nice for people folowing a project whn they are asked their opinion about thinks and from the "new UI development team" it should not pose a problem to have some extra brain pulling out ideas. Lots of crap will appear but there is the potential to extract some good ideas from that kind of venture...

And user feedback also helps improving/polishing the team's ideas to the best behavior/look

I cant code and havent got mutch free time but if i can help in some other way...

Nice work/discussion :)

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