File systems for FTP, HTTP, archives

The place to bring up any design issues, or post your own creations

Moderator: Moderator Team

Nixer
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:02 am
Location: Russia, Moscow
Contact:

Post by Nixer »

Haos wrote: Yes, we do know what you were suggesting. What we did not expect, is that you refuse to understand the unpracticability of you idea. You are welcome to prove that we are wrong, you can just convert your proposal into some solid code and present it. You cannot, on the other hand, force anyone into coding something that he doesnt want to do. You just tried this, and while being refused, you treated this refusal as a personal attack.
There are no slaves on this project, that could be ordered. You want it, do it then.
I tried to force somebody to code???!!! Are you really OK? How many menthally ill people live near us!

Z98
Release Engineer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 8:16 pm
Contact:

Post by Z98 »

Watch it. The people here can be scathing when they don't like an idea, especially if that idea is continually pushed. The discussion itself ended so both of you, don't start another fight.

Haos
Test Team
Posts: 2954
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:42 am
Contact:

Post by Haos »

Nixer wrote:I tried to force somebody to code???!!! Are you really OK? How many menthally ill people live near us!
It`s quite straightforward. You wish a feature to be included that not a single dev wants to see in ROS. You dont want to code it yourself, but you keep pushing it. Now do you understand?

EDIT: you should be punished, or at least warned for a written abuse, directed at another forum member.

Nixer
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:02 am
Location: Russia, Moscow
Contact:

Post by Nixer »

Haos wrote:
Nixer wrote:I tried to force somebody to code???!!! Are you really OK? How many menthally ill people live near us!
It`s quite straightforward. You wish a feature to be included that not a single dev wants to see in ROS. You dont want to code it yourself, but you keep pushing it. Now do you understand?

EDIT: you should be punished, or at least warned for a written abuse, directed at another forum member.
I did not push anything. Most people here did not understand what I do I suggest. I tried to explain them. Some also claimed it is impossible. I gave examples from Linux world where it is done.

Nixer
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:02 am
Location: Russia, Moscow
Contact:

Post by Nixer »

Z98 wrote:Watch it. The people here can be scathing when they don't like an idea, especially if that idea is continually pushed. The discussion itself ended so both of you, don't start another fight.
I wander why people here are so angry. I has been insulted not only in this topic and in IRC channel people accused me in stealing a nickname. Peps, with such attitude to novices, guests and others who come here with good mood you'll not success with ReactOS!

I also heared some devs swear at each other and I read interviews where they defamed other devs. People, it is wrong way!

User avatar
EmuandCo
Developer
Posts: 4436
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:52 pm
Location: Germany, Bavaria, Steinfeld
Contact:

Post by EmuandCo »

Devs swearin @ each other is normal here :-)
I share you opinion that less arrgessiviness would be nice. (YES, I said that, Mister short Temper!! :-P)
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

Haos
Test Team
Posts: 2954
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:42 am
Contact:

Post by Haos »

I think this thread is going nowhere. I seriously doubt anyone would insult you, unprovokedly, on #reactos channel, not speaking of nickstealing. If so, please post the exact time (GMT+0) of this incident, as many ppl are logging this chan, so it would be easy to confirm it.

You said pretty clear, on what you were suggesting. Also, i dont like your approach on safety precautions within internet transmissions.

You have been told more than once. We do not accept your idea, nor your approach. You are free and welcome to code it, using all our documentation and ROS sources, as long as you accept its license. Then you can prove that you were right, and we were mistaken.

More FTP ranting here wont change a thing. I suggest to close this topic.

Nixer
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:02 am
Location: Russia, Moscow
Contact:

Post by Nixer »

Also, i dont like your approach on safety precautions within internet transmissions.
It seems that you simply repeat what other people said, trying interpret it as you understand. FTP is already used and a more simple way to access this protocol cannot affect security. ZIP archives also cannot affect security.
Haos wrote: We do not accept your idea, nor your approach.
Are you a dev? I see you joined this forum 3 years after me. And now you say "we" for all devs?
Last edited by Nixer on Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mf
Developer
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:37 pm
Location: Eindhoven, NL
Contact:

Post by mf »

Nixer wrote:Are you a dev? I see you joined this forum 3 years after me. And now you say "we" for all devs?
I'm sorry, but you're on your own on this one. I don't think he means "we, the developers" but "we, the people arguing against you in this thread". As for all developers, I think it's safe to say that WE don't accept your idea or approach.
It compiles, let's ship it!

Nixer
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:02 am
Location: Russia, Moscow
Contact:

Post by Nixer »

mf wrote:
Nixer wrote:Are you a dev? I see you joined this forum 3 years after me. And now you say "we" for all devs?
I'm sorry, but you're on your own on this one. I don't think he means "we, the developers" but "we, the people arguing against you in this thread". As for all developers, I think it's safe to say that WE don't accept your idea or approach.
As you can see there are several ideas. Do you reject them all?


By the way, I found that Microsoft already implemented ftp file system: http://research.microsoft.com/~galenh/P ... ixNt97.pdf
ftpfs: The FTP File System mounts a remote
FTP server as a local file system. Incoming IRPs
are converted to outgoing FTP requests using the
WinInet APIs.

mf
Developer
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:37 pm
Location: Eindhoven, NL
Contact:

Post by mf »

Nixer wrote:By the way, I found that Microsoft already implemented ftp file system: http://research.microsoft.com/~galenh/P ... ixNt97.pdf
ftpfs: The FTP File System mounts a remote
FTP server as a local file system. Incoming IRPs
are converted to outgoing FTP requests using the
WinInet APIs.
That link describes a FUSE-like proxy filesystem driver where the filesystem functionality is handled in usermode. We've covered that earlier on in this thread.
It compiles, let's ship it!

Nixer
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 7:02 am
Location: Russia, Moscow
Contact:

Post by Nixer »

mf wrote:
Nixer wrote:By the way, I found that Microsoft already implemented ftp file system: http://research.microsoft.com/~galenh/P ... ixNt97.pdf
ftpfs: The FTP File System mounts a remote
FTP server as a local file system. Incoming IRPs
are converted to outgoing FTP requests using the
WinInet APIs.
That link describes a FUSE-like proxy filesystem driver where the filesystem functionality is handled in usermode. We've covered that earlier on in this thread.
Yes. It uses ftpfs as an example filesystem.
And this http://www.bebits.com/app/3511

is the FTPFS driver for BeOS. So, Unix has such driver, BeOS has, Widows has (but inside Misrosoft). Why not ReactOS?

Note that Plan 9 operating system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs) is wholy based on this idea. It is the cornerstone of the ideology of this OS.

oiaohm
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:40 am

Post by oiaohm »

Pardon me Nixer and MF

That system is basically fuse. http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~driscoll/fuse-nt.pdf Yes has been used in a experimental form of fuse.

But Nixer is forgetting something important. Windows cannot run off a usermode filesystem like linux can. Real filesystem drivers that ros can boot with beats usermode.

Why can Linux run off a usermode filesystem. It has a two tricks. Initrd a small known filesystem to os so the user mode filesystem can be placed there. On top not locked to a registry. I would love to be able to cut the boot part of windows away some how.

Lot of people here are thinking critical need ie bootable filesystems with secuirty. User mode filesystem are second thoughts.

A coder was paid from one of the bounty sites for developing a fuse filesystem for windows. http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/mi ... tId=586300

Question who has it. It never appeared on sf.net as it was ment to. Because if it exists there is no issue at all other than adding fuse to the Reactos tree and reduced developer time required hopefully.

Beos is a rare os that ftpfs is kernel mode. But is only a example never found in production versions of Beos due to problems I stated before.

Don't talk about Plan_9 its a different beast. Its model is everything is network. Linux and beos is everything is files. Windows is everything is objects. These are completely different models. Linux and beos are closer to windows than Plan 9 is. FTP is not a good OS filesystem base there is no way around it. Even Plan_9 uses special file systems for its OS across network when dependability is required.

Point all over the shop does not make a bad idea good.
Micrsoft windows, Linux, Freebsd.... most unixs the FTP filesystems are usermode filesystems. Not critical at this time. We need kernel mode filesystem to run Reactos on. No security in fat32 kernel mode filesystem ie Kernel mode filesystems are far more important at this time.

Of course latter in Reactos development that could change. Besides there is a chance usermode filesystem already exists. Or will be developed independent to Reactos.

Z98
Release Engineer
Posts: 3379
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 8:16 pm
Contact:

Post by Z98 »

Most of the people who last as long as Haos, oiaohm, or myself and actively participated on the forums on a regular basis grow extremely jaded, simply because we see a lot of less than well thought out ideas. While we are not overtly hostile, we can easily be seen as such, which can cause a chain reaction down the line. But when we do say no, it's not a good idea to continue pressing.

This is seriously going nowhere. I'm just gonna lock this before another fight starts.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 1 guest