3D based desktop?

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Floyd
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Post by Floyd »

i personally would love to see beryl or a beryl-like project ported to react.
not to replace reactos explorer, but to offer an eye candy alternative (a glass alternative).
but i realize that the devs probably want to copy vista instead.
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Z98
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Post by Z98 »

The ROS devs have repeatedly refused to consider any kind of 3D desktop. They all think it's useless eye candy, which I agree with. This includes a beryl or Aero copy.

.aart3k
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Post by .aart3k »

chill, i'd bet that someone somewhat will bring compositing into ros, just because vista has it ;)

Floyd
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Post by Floyd »

Z98 wrote:The ROS devs have repeatedly refused to consider any kind of 3D desktop. They all think it's useless eye candy, which I agree with. This includes a beryl or Aero copy.
god forbid a graphical user interface have eye candy.
pax mei amici amorque et Iesus sacret omnia

geertvdijk
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Post by geertvdijk »

Floyd wrote:
Z98 wrote:The ROS devs have repeatedly refused to consider any kind of 3D desktop. They all think it's useless eye candy, which I agree with. This includes a beryl or Aero copy.
god forbid a graphical user interface have eye candy.
with all the respect, can we keep God out of this? UI discussions might be hard, but we can keep it at our own level, right?
Further, the 'original' reactos won't have it, but it's up to anyone who can to create something if they want to, it's open sourced, so...
-graey-

Floyd
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Post by Floyd »

Further, the 'original' reactos won't have it, but it's up to anyone who can to create something if they want to, it's open sourced, so...
but if the idea is to copy windows, and windows now has eye candy, i think it's logical to introduce that in react--especially since the beryl code is opensource and opengl, it shouldn't be too hard to bring it to react.
pax mei amici amorque et Iesus sacret omnia

GreyGhost
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Post by GreyGhost »

IMO ... ReactOS should be moe towards Usability .. which i personally find in the 2k type design .. we don't need to copy everything MS is doing.. but yes someone may port Beryl to Windows (If that is possible) then it 'should' work on ROS too....
Regards GreyGhost

Mrkaras
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Post by Mrkaras »

I would agree that we should implement a modern windows interface, that is vista. Vista will soon not be just the latest, soon it will be the normal, long before reactos 1.0. what if reactos looked like win3.1 now, it would be very old looking the same thing will happen soon if it copies the look of an outdated OS (ie windows 2k and even XP)

to be a drop-in windows replacement the target will change over time, as it has now and probably will again in another few years whatever stage reactos is at then.

Z98
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Post by Z98 »

Don't make me put up a sticky of ROS will not create/use an Aero replacement. Does such a thing make the OS any easier to use? The answer right now is no. Do they take up resources? The answer is yes. The OS is a tool. How much time do you actually spend looking at it? You spend most of your time in applications. And why waste resources on eye candy for the OS when you want to use them for applications?

The current open source 3D window managers or whatever they're called are all designed to be used with the X Window System. ROS does not have this, nor is it likely it would ever be the main graphical display. Actually, let's hope it never is. As such, porting it to work with Windows would be very time consuming. But even if someone did get it working, the devs are very unlikely to include it in the base. They will leave it up to end users to do it themselves, like with many other things.

Radhad
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Post by Radhad »

I believe that most people do not use the "modern" styles of XP or Vista, because they a) do not need it and b) they don't want to search every preferences. The best example is the control panel under XP & Vista after default installation... I thank MS that they have included the "old school" navigation in XP, so that I can find everything fast. In Vista I have to do more mouse clicks to change s.th. ...

Only the aspect of the new search tool in the startmenu of Vista is a good thing, but those features aren't depending on the theme or on Aero...

.aart3k
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Post by .aart3k »

it matter of preferences, you can say it's not usable, i form my everyday exerience find it bery useful, we now have to wait for more stable kernel, and at the moment goal for ros is to implement 5.1 windows so native compositing is not planned. but it will be written if not by ros developers then by some others and maybe it could be furthermore merged.

imho topic can go to closing, ros is not going to make full replacement of newest windows. if it is going then compositing is a must (new windows applications can use it instead of gdi, which is avalabile only by emulation, afaik)

SpoonmAn
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Post by SpoonmAn »

@redhat

belive me, most users DO use xp´s modern styles, because its DEFAULT and they dont eaven know it eats resources... sure, who knows more about what is going on behind the scenes (or the desktop) maybe does not use it

atarixle
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Post by atarixle »

I think, an Aero-Desktop will be nessesary for full Vista-Compatibelity in the far future, as long some apps will not only 2D-Applications with 3D-Effects. Some Apps will have a 3D-GUI, like iTunes has now.

Switchboy
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Post by Switchboy »

SpoonmAn wrote:@redhat

belive me, most users DO use xp´s modern styles, because its DEFAULT and they dont eaven know it eats resources... sure, who knows more about what is going on behind the scenes (or the desktop) maybe does not use it
On modern PCs the "resources drain" is minimal or not there at all. Sure it eats a couple of KB ram more. But when you have 1~2GB your really are not going to notice slowdowns or sloppy responses. However if you want to make React OS available to older PCs pre 2001 you should deliver a simpler GUI. Things like Aero do eat extra power, but if you have the minimal hardware to run it. It will run like a charm. And because it uses the GPU and not the CPU it will barley (as in not significant) effect performance. If you do have a decent PC and notice slowdowns then you are either a super human being or it is between your ears.

I’ am running Vista for a couple of months now. (Yeah I know shame on me :P)And I must say it really is a great improvement from XP. Not only is interaction with windows different in a positive way. Having borders that are shiny and transparent and drop shadows just feels more natural. I dual boot with Linux, XP and Vista. And whenever I boot in XP I keep asking myself how did I cope with the slow startup times of my browser, word processor and other programs. And I keep coming up with the same answer. Vista runs more fluently. This has several reasons:
  • Programs open and close with an animation
    Superprefetch really makes a world of difference
    Because the animation everything seems more fluently natural.
It's a proven fact that when people work in a nice environment work output will increase, people will have more pleasure in working and they are more relaxed. And feeling relaxed while you work is half the way of preventing RSI and High blood pressure.

So I suggest that a fluent experience must be one of our goals. I’ am not saying that it should be implanted right away. The priority is building a stable OS. However we might want to make something similar to superprefetch, because that really makes a lot of difference.

Floyd
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Post by Floyd »

well i suggest beryl over aero because i did a bench mark a work, the same computer vista sat at 11% with 650 mb of ram used with aero turned on and 400 mb of ram used with aero turned off (same cpu %) -- this was on a pentium 4 mind you with 2 GB of ram.

that *same* pc ran beryl/compiz at 0-1% cpu and 350 mb of ram used.
the linux/beryl implementation was ridiculously less hungry.
pax mei amici amorque et Iesus sacret omnia

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