Open thing I don't like in ROS

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GaeTaN
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:08 pm

Open thing I don't like in ROS

Post by GaeTaN »

Hi !
I think the ROS project is really good !
However, there's something I don't really like : it's the explorer.
I mean, I don't really like the look of the explorer bar, which, in my opinion, should just looks exactly like Win2k's one.
And also I think the files explorer should also looks like the Win2k's one, because it's quite simpler and better to use imo. The one provided with ROS makes me too much think about windows 3.1, which is not what ROS is aimed to be :wink:
Follow the great work !
Gaetan

Ratteler
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:31 pm

Post by Ratteler »

I personally think that it's a waist of time to concentrate on Explorer at all, never mind tweaking the look of it.

I want a core functionality that lets me run Windows software like the Adobe, Macromedia, 3D applications, and plays games.

Once the OS can do that, we can adapt any GUI we want, or theoretically use an actual version of Explorer.

I would be happy with a Task Manager inteface.

Phalanx
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:42 am
Location: Australia

Post by Phalanx »

Ratteler wrote:I would be happy with a Task Manager inteface.
You should look at the task manager already in Ros.
eg. http://www.reactos.org/media/screenshot ... n_qemu.png

Also the interface is a very important part of the software. If they can not use it, it does not matter what it does, they will not use it (eg. large companies).

Ratteler
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:31 pm

Post by Ratteler »

I actually, I'm sure some companies would be very happy to have a system that boots directly into OpenOffice.

But the point is there seems to be a lot of confusion around here about exactly what "Windows" is. Explorer is just a DTE and personally I think it's a waist of resources to have people working on Explorer before there is a solid Kernal, driver, Networking, drive access, and even a GUI subsystem to draw explorers windows.

Sure the "pretty" will bring in new users like it did me. But with out the ability to actually run the software the software they'll just go, "Interesting" and leave.

Also with Windows about to change it's face again in Vista I think people might just see ROexplorer as an "OLD" looking OS.

As for the Task manager, it looks fine... but a Ctrl+Alt+Del didn't bring it up on my live CD version.

Phalanx
Posts: 360
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:42 am
Location: Australia

Post by Phalanx »

That is cause there is no alt + ctrl + del key combination. Just locate to the program and run it or maybe the task bar. The task manager has been around for a very long time, and is very well done.

GaeTaN
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:08 pm

Post by GaeTaN »

It is not stupid to make people working for the explorer, I believe there is already someone who is working on it ? So he should make it looking a little bit better, Explorer is something we use nearly all the time, and seeing an ugly thing is just not good to use...
I don't want an explorer like xp with pictures and bloated features, no, what I want is a simple explorer, looking like the windows 2000 one :)
Vista will be out, well, not a problem, it will be even more bloated and pictured than xp, and as I said, I don't think the aim of ROS is to make a bloated OS, maybe the contrary :P

Ged
Developer
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: UK

Post by Ged »

GaeTaN wrote:I don't think the aim of ROS is to make a bloated OS, maybe the contrary :P
Correct.
The Windows 2000 desktop is simple, easy to use and well known.
The aim for the ReactOS desktop is to make windows users feel right at home when they first come to ROS.
Hence the ReactOS desktop will closely simulate that of Win2k with a few improvements here are there (like multi desktops ... although functionality is not yet incorporated)

uriox
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:48 pm

Post by uriox »

First I would like to congratulate Martin Fuchs for his work on the ROS explorer.
It is a really complete GUI : shell, file manager, task manager, systray... To my knowledge (tell me if I'm wrong) is it the most complete GPL software that does shell+file manager.

Now what should be the approach we want for ReactOS ?

All in one = ROS.

Or a modular GUI : shell done by program XXX, file manager by YYY, window skinning by ZZZ, task/process manager by AAA and clipboard by anothe one, etc.

My point is there are MANY projects, and some are under GPL, that are only waiting for a chance to realize their full potential.

By example there are already some available alternative shells under windows : litestep, bblean (which has window skinning !), geoshell, ...
Litestep is especially popular and it has a lot of power : from simple to very complex themes, looking like windows 3.1, 2000, xp, or even MacOS. Great for power users, geeks, or people who like minimalistic things. IMO there are no better shell at the moment.

There are some freeware/shareware file managers (xplorer2, directory opus are among the best), but I don't remember of a great GPL file manager, though there are probably some.

So here is my point : while it is weel worth still developping ROS for all-in-one approach, I'm sure a few developpers from each of those GPL project would be more than interested to do something for ReactOS, a special version of their shell/file manager/ etc.

This :
- gives the users choices : ROS explorer or Litestep by example
- make it easier to have cutting edge file manager + cutting edge shell + ... as they are developped separately ---> more realeases, more bugfixes than for an all-in-one approach
- people working on ReactOS don't have to think about those tasks then
- attracts MacOS fans, geeks, etc., computer press (looks nice !)
- is way ahead compared to Vista (multidesktops, monitoring, calendars, integrated media player, etc.)
- brings many new developers to the ReactOS project, and their community too

So what do you think ? Utopia ? Can be done ? I like the idea of several GPL teams working to make a better OS...

GaeTaN
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:08 pm

Post by GaeTaN »

What I think myself is ROS should stick the way Windows do :)
I like the Windows way of doing stuffs, the only reason why I want ReactOS is that Windows is bloated, bugged, overpriced, ... Which is actually a good reason :)
Multi desktop is a good feature, but again, I would rather have windows features first :)

Ratteler
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:31 pm

Post by Ratteler »

GaeTaN wrote:Multi desktop is a good feature, but again, I would rather have windows features first :)
I'm not saying there shouldn't ever be a ROExplorer, but that it should be pushed back as a priority until everything else is working.

I think the current ROexplorer looks great... for now.

The beauty of the modular approach. Eveyone get's what they want. Your Explorer replcament can be D-OPUS, something over the top created from the GLP'd Quake3 Code, or anything in between.

We have to get people to uderstand the logical split between Windows the OS, and Windows Applications like Explorer, IE, Wordpad, Etc... that are shipped with OS, but are not truely part of it. It's not all one big program called "Windows".

I'm definatly hoping that ReactOS takes the modular approach.
In fact... if it's technically possible, I would like to see ROS develop into a true microkernal architecture. But it might not be possible while maitaining compatibility.

I also think other GLP'd projects should be tapped to fill in any missing parts. The less the dev team has to re-invent the wheel, the faster this project can become viable.

The end user isn't going to understand the difference between KDE, Finder and Explorer. What's going to matter is "Does it run my GAMES!"

That may sound bad to some of you, but the bottom line is that the GAME market is the one place Microsoft still rules. No one WANTS to run a Win2KX server anymore, and MS is loosing nations and American States to Linux/OpenOffice for a work environment.

What keeps them a float is the Game market and a distant second is content creation apps like the Adobe Suit.

For surfing the web, E-Mail, and writing the occasional letter any Knoppix distro is enough for the home users.

uriox
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:48 pm

Post by uriox »

Ratteler wrote: I'm not saying there shouldn't ever be a ROExplorer, but that it should be pushed back as a priority until everything else is working.
Sure. Personnaly I find it great at the moment. Especially since I've been doing some desktop mods, I know the work Martin has done is truly unique (file manager+ shell) and will be great to attrack the average XP user.
Ratteler wrote: I'm definatly hoping that ReactOS takes the modular approach.
I hope too. Not so many modules for the moment, though...
Ratteler wrote: That may sound bad to some of you, but the bottom line is that the GAME market is the one place Microsoft still rules.
True. That's why Linux or MacOS will never make it. Lack of games.
If you show that 3dmark score is slightly higher under ReactOS than it is under Windows, the two thirds of the gaming community will switch to ReactOS within the year.
As a gamer and game reviewer, I can nearly guarantee it :-)

Ratteler wrote: No one WANTS to run a Win2KX server anymore, and MS is loosing nations and American States to Linux/OpenOffice for a work environment.
Well security will probably be a major concern for this issue, and for now we have no precise idea how secure ReactOS will be.
If ReactOS is Win XP compatible, you immediately can be affected by all viruses, troyans, worms, etc.
GPL firewall, anyone ? :-)

Ged
Developer
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: UK

Post by Ged »

uriox wrote: If ReactOS is Win XP compatible, you immediately can be affected by all viruses, troyans, worms, etc.
GPL firewall, anyone ? :-)
Thats not true.
Most variants of virus, trojan or worm generally work by exploiting holes in a particular binary. For instance, the well known blaster worm exploited a hole in RPC DCOM.
As the ReactOS equivalants are built using different source code than the Microsoft version, it should not be open to the same exploit.

The only exception to this would be if a feature is being exploited, or through a bug which we have simulated in Windows for whatever reason. (highly unlikley)

Of course this doesn't apply to a system being compromised through 3rd party applications, which is out of the control of the operating system developers, or end user stupidity of running unknown code delivered in their inbox, or downloaded from the net.

uriox
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:48 pm

Post by uriox »

ged wrote:
uriox wrote: If ReactOS is Win XP compatible, you immediately can be affected by all viruses, troyans, worms, etc.
GPL firewall, anyone ? :-)
Thats not true.
Sorry, that was not what I wanted to mean (english is not my native language). Yes, obviously worms relying on specific vulnerabilities would not be a problem (Sasser, Blaster, etc.), but I wanted to point out that binary compatiblity can allow "standard" viruses/troyans to work. Though this kind of viruses are less frequent nowdays. By affected I meant it would be problem, not that you would be in danger. Just to say that a firewall could be nice.

Ged
Developer
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Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: UK

Post by Ged »

uriox wrote:Just to say that a firewall could be nice.
Yes, definately.
I currently have my eye on a simple packet filter I would like to use as a base for our own built in firewall.

I won't be doing much on this though until our network model is fully stable

oiaohm
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:40 am

Have to test reactos with.

Post by oiaohm »

Winpooch and Clamwin.

Now firewall with redirects like linux would be great really great.

Complete free antivirus with great filtering.

Looks like Reactos could be top notch.

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