Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

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igorko
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by igorko » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:04 am

Correct me someone if i'm wrong.

Drazic

Yarotows was created for fixing win32(both usermode and kernelmode part). And Arwinss is used for replacing usermode part of win32, kernelmode part is still based on ReactOS code. So Arwinss uses Yarotows code :) (i mean win32k). Arwinss win32k is still not synced with latest trunk but it will be. So Yarotows brings dynamical mode switching in Arwinss too. Those two branches are not "conflicting"- they can make good job together.
And the last - Arwinss will be merged to trunk as soon as possible(after fixing some bugs that are remaining) so we will have both winSS in trunk.

Drazic
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by Drazic » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:34 pm

Arwinss will be merged to trunk as soon as possible, so we will have both winSS in trunk.
It's easy to copy the Arwinss files to a folder in the trunk branch, but by merging I actually ment to say: creating one user32 from the two branches, using the best parts of Arwinss and the best parts of Trunk (the same how Yarotows was merged back), the structure is so different it would be a hell of a job.

You are absolutely correct that we can have one kernel-part, and two usermode-parts, and allow easy switching for testing and debugging purposes.

For every bug that appears in both usermodes, you have to write two different fixes, because the code cannot be synced. It will not double the time, because most time is spent on researching the bug, but it's far from ideal.

Drazic
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by Drazic » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:57 pm

Just an example:

I added support for various missing shell notifications to Arwinss, to make explorer-new.exe function better. A quick look at the trunk code learned that the rare ones were also missing in trunk. So I decided to also apply them there. But the whole flow (creating a window, actually painting it, notifying various handlers), is so different from trunk. Window messages fire in completely different order, and in Arwinss everything is mapped to a x11 wrapper driver, so all core logic is moved to different files and functions. For one to apply the same logic to trunk, and fix the bug there too, you have to (almost) start from scratch, and who likes that?

And yes, there are is a lot of user32 code that is the same between Wine and Trunk and Arwinss, and is easy to sync. But the files that really matter (basics like 'window.c'), are very different. And that's logical, because they change the most.

igorko
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by igorko » Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:24 pm

The idea of Arwinss is to have "unchanged" wine-tested code. So there is no point for megring both usermodes. And Arwinss fixes can be sent to Wine.(if not than we can apply it only for ros- there is no choose)

Merging Arwinss into "native" win32 can be made in far future, but not now(and it will be hard to do). There is no another choise :(

Drazic
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by Drazic » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:51 am

You are right that the idea was to have unchanged Wine code, but I really like to see Arwinss useable for end-users, not just a testing branch for Wine behaviour. To improve Arwinss, it will forces me to become a Wine-dev :( An unpopular one too, because everything I commit is useless for Linux because X11 handles it instead. Just hoping that they commit my patches, so they flow back into our Arwinss.

When I refuse to become a slave of Wine, and make the changes to Arwinss directly, we slowly loosing sync. And after a couple of years Arwinss will have the same flaw as the trunk: based on very outdated Wine code.

So maybe there is a solution in the middle, but I don't see how we can improve Arwinss without breaking the rule of the "unchanged" wine code.

sh4ring4n
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by sh4ring4n » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:01 am

Drazic wrote:So maybe there is a solution in the middle, but I don't see how we can improve Arwinss without breaking the rule of the "unchanged" wine code.
Well, there is Wine dlls, since they tend to improve both Wine and Reactos (trunk and arwinss).
The cake is a lie!

Pisarz
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by Pisarz » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:16 pm

I still think, that we should name it "Vodka" (it sounds better than "WINE Extended" and could mean the same anyway - less tasty, but has more power).

ironek69
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by ironek69 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:29 pm

No offense, but why shouldn't we call it Heroin or Cocaine;)? I really don't think Vodka is good idea.

PurpleGurl
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by PurpleGurl » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:54 pm

ironek69 wrote:No offense, but why shouldn't we call it Heroin or Cocaine;)? I really don't think Vodka is good idea.
They suggested Vodka as a play on Wine. But your names sound interesting. I could see the slogans now.

"Give your PC a shot of heroin!"

nicamarvin2005
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by nicamarvin2005 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:12 pm

Should we start thinking about Forking Arwinss? seems like the debs wants this porgect down... been months since Arwinss was last synced.... :cry:

SomeGuy
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by SomeGuy » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:42 pm

The last developer meeting, which was canceled, was supposed to address ARWINSS adoption. I expect this will be addressed again soon.

There has been some awesome work in ARWINSS, and the intention was to roll this in to the trunk in one form or another effectively making the ARWINSS components simply "ReactOS". I get the impression not all the developers are for this change as it somewhat goes against goals of cloning the full Windows NT architecture (it uses Wine specific architecture instead).

If ARWINSS is not adopted, as was intended, then I'm afraid there is not much point in continuing it as developer focus will remain on the original ReactOS components.

nicamarvin2005
Posts: 151
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by nicamarvin2005 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:47 am

If ARWINSS is not adopted, as was intended, then I'm afraid there is not much point in continuing it as developer focus will remain on the original ReactOS components
That´s why we should start thinking about Forking ARWINSS.... :idea:

PurpleGurl
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by PurpleGurl » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:08 am

I do wonder if after Arwinss is developed for a while if others will make it more NT-like or do some things in it around the wrapper to improve performance. It would be nice in a way if someone could take the code or sections that make Arwinns so great and use just them. Maybe mix both together in some way, like how ARM3 was worked in as the memory manager. If nothing else, then yes, design Arwinss as a fork and have 2 projects. Sometimes forks have a way of fixing things back in the original work. In this case, forking wouldn't be bad since we already have a standard to live up to. Forking can have more consequences in Linux, especially when there are already so many different package formats.

Anyway, I wonder what the best names and logos so far are?

fred02
Posts: 551
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Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by fred02 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:45 pm

SomeGuy wrote:If ARWINSS is not adopted, as was intended, then I'm afraid there is not much point in continuing it as developer focus will remain on the original ReactOS components.
Why not? Arwinss is an alternative implementation, that sits on top of the ROS kernel, so as long as there are interested developers it can be continued.
nicamarvin2005 wrote:That´s why we should start thinking about Forking ARWINSS.... :idea:
Why? Arwinss code is available and I am sure Aleksey Bragin will be more than happy to have more contributors.
PurpleGurl wrote:Anyway, I wonder what the best names and logos so far are?
Yes, the flow of new names have dried up lately, so may be it is a good time to sum them up and have some voting. It would be nice to have a new name for the "back to school" time.

igorko
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:12 pm

Re: Arwinss : Alternative names + logo request

Post by igorko » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:34 pm

Let's call it Pine or Vine. And for both we can make awesome logo.

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