When does 0.3.12 will come out?

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Haos
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Haos »

@nute
I always loved the argument to buy only the hardware that runs Linux properly. Thus, in order to be really free, my freedom of choice has got to be severely limited, right on the start.

As for your other questions, the answer is no, in general. I don't recall, besides gcc vs mscv discussion, you asking for any other information besides "when is something gonna be done". Don't say you've been asking for information, when you only requested the deadlines. Other "when" questions been answered to you countless times.

Touching the topic finally, if you continue stealing topics for your rants, like this one, you can only expect loosing your posting rights as well. Please mark my words seriously.

nute
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by nute »

Well Angelus, I strongly disagree with your suggestion that I a don't respect the developers and b that I should avoid Unix like systems. First off, my primary system is a CentOS system. I also dabble in: freedos, dosbox, Syllable via VM, Visopsys via VM occasionally, and I think you should get the point by now. Asking what motivates developers at this point does NOT disrespect them. As far as giving anything away for free, ReactOS hasn't matured enough to be a complete fully featured OS. Linux is given away for free and unlike ReactOS, Linux is far more mature. The status quo is not Linux, the status quo is Microsoft Windows. Perhaps supporting open standards that are in competition with Microsoft's standards is a better use of limited resources than ReactOS as a whole is. If ReactOS could come together reasonably soon, there might be an argument in favor of development. Thing is, the 0.3.x development series is getting long in the tooth and I can state for a fact that I have lost my new topic posting privileges for essentially asking when is XYZ coming out, why this, why that, etcetera. I see major problems with the whole concept of ReactOS if ReactOS doesn't become a passable replacement for at least Windows XP within the next 2 years. If ReactOS is an attempt to clone the "best" in current operating system technology, why is cloning the elusive Windows NT architecture so difficult?

The inability of the moderators at least to take on hard questions and criticism is not encouraging. I don't like Microsoft Windows, but that doesn't mean that I have no reason to be interested in ReactOS. ReactOS is NOT Microsoft Windows, but it may eventually be something that can be used as a free drop in replacement. Right now, ReactOS is NOT all that interesting. I see potential though if the community gains developers and overcomes some of the high hurdles ahead in a reasonable amount of time.

I stand by what I said in my last post. This thread has seen many attempts to ask the question that is the subject, albeit the subject should be, "When will ReactOS 0.3.12 come out?" There has also been a tangent discussion on newsletters, what information can be collected, and how that information should be disseminated.

Clearly, one does the following at their own risk:

1) Criticize the project in any way shape or form on the forums.

2) Ask when a milestone such as the next release will come out?

3) Request more civility and professionalism.

I don't see how I can be the number one reason why developers don't comment on the forums when I don't use poor language and I don't start fights. More likely, developers in general don't have time to use these forums and even if they did there may be a majority of opinion that these forums are NOT a positive thing. What developer wants to join in when one stranger on these forums personally attacks another stranger? I'm sorry, but suggesting that a foreigner is single handedly driving away developers is a personal attack on that person.

preston
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by preston »

nute wrote: 3) Request more civility and professionalism.
You gotta be kidding me.
nute wrote: I don't see how I can be the number one reason why developers don't comment on the forums when I don't use poor language and I don't start fights.
At least for me you indeed are the nr. 1 reason I don't come here very often these days. I'm not surprised you don't see it.

To stay on topic. Anyone who can read, can also check the SVN logs to see the overall progress. I don't understand the obssesion with releases. You can download svn builds which are only few hours old. Why do you need a release which is pretty much the same? If it's the wallpaper you can download that from our svn too.

nute
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by nute »

I can get my posting rights back easily Haos, at least for a short while. All I have to do to get them back is sign up as another user. How long that will last I cannot say and no, I have never done that. I don't appreciate your personal attacks nor do I appreciate your threats Haos. Your response Haos only proves what I've said in my last two posts in this thread. As far as hijacking threads, I wasn't aware that you thought anything I say is not hijacking. If I'm not allowed to ask about the subject of this thread, that isn't my fault. After all, I can't open any new threads.

"Anyone who can read, can also check the SVN logs to see the overall progress. I don't understand the obssesion with releases."

Z98 strongly disagrees with you preston or else he wouldn't waste his limited time writing a monthly newsletter now would he? The SVN logs are not magical. They do not automatically make sense to anyone who reads them. It is disrespectful to say that limited comments in an SVN log are not going to create more questions than they answer. There have been comments in this thread from Z98 himself suggesting that the average person cannot understand what is going on by reading the SVN logs alone.

3) Request more civility and professionalism.

I am not kidding anyone. When a total stranger is the problem, a scapegoat for a problem, a professional can see this and look at the real problem(s). Preston, any developer writing short SVN comments that only he/she understands will see your read the SVN comments retort as a personal attack on a total stranger. Any decent moderator would see that the problem isn't me, the problem is people like you preston engaging in personal attacks to boost your own over inflated ego.

Nothing in the SVN logs says, we are testing for the next major release. Nothing in those logs says, we will test for the next major release by XYZ. The logs do not say, this needs to be fixed before release. The logs might say, A was dropped and B was added. What does A was dropped and B was added mean preston? Without more detail, neither you nor I know what that means.

preston
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by preston »

dunno man.. don't read the logs then. read the newsletter. I don't know what you want but please go wanting it somewhere else and stop hijacking threads. thanks.

Haos
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Haos »

Asking what motivates developers at this point does NOT disrespect them.
That was being answered several times. Its interest and will of sacrificing one's free time.
As far as giving anything away for free, ReactOS hasn't matured enough to be a complete fully featured OS.
We do try to point out this whenever possible... in case you missed it.
Linux is given away for free and unlike ReactOS, Linux is far more mature.
Linux is being developed for apparently longer period of time, Linux has more developers, Linux has more resources.
The status quo is not Linux, the status quo is Microsoft Windows. Perhaps supporting open standards that are in competition with Microsoft's standards is a better use of limited resources than ReactOS as a whole is. If ReactOS could come together reasonably soon, there might be an argument in favor of development.
As stated, being our free time and our own resources, we reserve ourselves right to use them in the way WE like, even if in your opinion this is a waste. You are kindly asked to respect this right and don't raise this again, anymore.
Thing is, the 0.3.x development series is getting long in the tooth and I can state for a fact that I have lost my new topic posting privileges for essentially asking when is XYZ coming out, why this, why that, etcetera.
No. You lost your your posting rights for slander and moderator abuse, iirc. Why dont you quote some of your private messages here, with personal attacks and insulting some of the team members? As for question you ask, its nothing bar when is XYZ coming out, why is XYZ not fixed yet, when XYZ will be fixed/working. You don't ask any other kind of questions.
I see major problems with the whole concept of ReactOS if ReactOS doesn't become a passable replacement for at least Windows XP within the next 2 years.
Then you should rethink if this project is worth of your time and attention. Please do so.
If ReactOS is an attempt to clone the "best" in current operating system technology, why is cloning the elusive Windows NT architecture so difficult?
You can fork our project or start over and use it only as a reference. While learning more on NT arch, you might perhaps understand why is it so difficult.
The inability of the moderators at least to take on hard questions and criticism is not encouraging.
The questions have been answered countless times. The problem with you is just you never accept answers. Any.
I don't like Microsoft Windows, but that doesn't mean that I have no reason to be interested in ReactOS. ReactOS is NOT Microsoft Windows, but it may eventually be something that can be used as a free drop in replacement. Right now, ReactOS is NOT all that interesting. I see potential though if the community gains developers and overcomes some of the high hurdles ahead in a reasonable amount of time.
Yes. At the moment this project is not for general audience, alas it needs more popularity, so it could gain more necessary resources.
I stand by what I said in my last post. This thread has seen many attempts to ask the question that is the subject, albeit the subject should be, "When will ReactOS 0.3.12 come out?"
No force in this universe can give you any precise date, as such doesn't exist. There is too much quantum imprecision to know such date. Please accept this answer as there is no better one.
Clearly, one does the following at their own risk:
1) Criticize the project in any way shape or form on the forums.
2) Ask when a milestone such as the next release will come out?
3) Request more civility and professionalism.
ad.1 You are not banned. Betov has not been banned as well, despite his accusations being libelous. Yes. It looks like we dont accept criticism. Just to speak of my opinion, i like better one person that says what is wrong and how can it be fixed, than a hundred of people telling all is great.

ad.2 No one ever was punished here for asking ANY questions. I answered yours numberless times, even though i knew you will ask them again. Where is the risk?

ad.3 Please start complying yourself to your requests first.
I don't see how I can be the number one reason why developers don't comment on the forums when I don't use poor language and I don't start fights.

Yes, you do. Last example was your rant, ordering us to drop any MSVC work. Pity you didn't follow your threats to cease any interest with ROS.
More likely, developers in general don't have time to use these forums and even if they did there may be a majority of opinion that these forums are NOT a positive thing. What developer wants to join in when one stranger on these forums personally attacks another stranger? I'm sorry, but suggesting that a foreigner is single handedly driving away developers is a personal attack on that person.
Tell that to Ged Murphy.
I can get my posting rights back easily Haos, at least for a short while. All I have to do to get them back is sign up as another user. How long that will last I cannot say and no, I have never done that.
Unless you change your attitude and style of writing completely, one or two posts, i'd say. Wanna try?
I don't appreciate your personal attacks nor do I appreciate your threats Haos. Your response Haos only proves what I've said in my last two posts in this thread.
There were no personal attacks, nor threats. I only informed you about consequences of breaching this forum rules, repeteadly. This is not the first time you hijack threads, you have been warned because of this before. If you continue doing that, you will be punished more severly. How manipulative one must be to make himself a victim over his own deeds?
As far as hijacking threads, I wasn't aware that you thought anything I say is not hijacking. If I'm not allowed to ask about the subject of this thread, that isn't my fault. After all, I can't open any new threads.
Your inability of creating new threads is only your fault, an effect of serious breeching of forum rules. Had your one before last post here was only about "When is XYZ", "Why is XYZ not fixed/working yet" i would say no word. Sadly, you couldn't pass this occasion to slip our usual, off-topic rant. This is called thread hijacking.
Z98 strongly disagrees with you preston or else he wouldn't waste his limited time writing a monthly newsletter now would he?
Sadly, not monthly. Newsletter is not a release though.
The SVN logs are not magical. They do not automatically make sense to anyone who reads them. It is disrespectful to say that limited comments in an SVN log are not going to create more questions than they answer. There have been comments in this thread from Z98 himself suggesting that the average person cannot understand what is going on by reading the SVN logs alone.
Sadly, you don't seem to ask any questions based on SVN logs, apart from your usual ones.
I am not kidding anyone. When a total stranger is the problem, a scapegoat for a problem, a professional can see this and look at the real problem(s).

Making yourself a victim is not going to help you in any way.
Preston, any developer writing short SVN comments that only he/she understands will see your read the SVN comments retort as a personal attack on a total stranger. Any decent moderator would see that the problem isn't me, the problem is people like you preston engaging in personal attacks to boost your own over inflated ego.
What personal attack? Are you paranoid? There are no personal attacks on you, besides those in your imagination. Seriously, you have bigger problem with criticism of your person, even comparing to the critiscm problem you try to attach to us.
Nothing in the SVN logs says, we are testing for the next major release. Nothing in those logs says, we will test for the next major release by XYZ. The logs do not say, this needs to be fixed before release. The logs might say, A was dropped and B was added. What does A was dropped and B was added mean preston? Without more detail, neither you nor I know what that means.
Please try to read svn logs from time to time. You will see when we are preparing for next major release, if you try to do so, instead of telling anyone that you do.

vicmarcal
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by vicmarcal »

"Each time you answer a duplicated complain of nute, one app is not tested in Ros"

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Black_Fox
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Black_Fox »

Yes please, at least developers and members of the test team go mind your own usefull business and don't lose your time in these stereotypical, repetitive threads, all people except nute will thank you...

Angelus
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Angelus »

Haos:
(Just because of self-interest) How much time did you spent reading nute's post and writting your reply?

Haos
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Haos »

@Angelus
10 and 8 minutes. Build finished in the meantime.

@Vicmarcal
I dont test any apps in ROS atm.

mrugiero
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by mrugiero »

Nute; you think Linux isn't a status quo? It's a Unix clone (I know, it's not a "clone", but just like ReactOS, a substitute), and it offers a stable system and whatever, but it started before, and gave a free OS before; as a consequence, it's the choice for the one who wants a free OS today; but saying "don't put your hopes in ReactOS, use Linux" isn't freedom, you're not leaving them a choice, you're forcing them; and by saying to them "use gcc, not msvc" is the same, you're not saying they can choice, if freedom is what you care, and you care the project, I've got news for you, is FREE SOFTWARE, you can take the source and start your own project, find devs, and use gcc, because THAT way is the free way; don't tell anyone what they must do with their projects.
And yes, I'm too a Linux user and enthusiastic, but because I want my freedom to be respected and I want to collaborate with the other people, I don't think we must force anyone to choice the same we do.

vicmarcal
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by vicmarcal »

Haos wrote: @Vicmarcal
I dont test any apps in ROS atm.
Not talking about you :), it is a global sentence.In the same way that "Each time you [verb]something, God kills a kitten"really God isnt killing them ;)
Just that i think Nute doesnt deserve any minute reading his answers,since they are falling again and again in the same issues.Issues that we have answered him before. I dont mind answering posts to new people that has problems installing/testing/suggesting ReactOS(although these questions has been answered,and repeated, tons of times previously) but i never answer TWICE to a guy that asks 3 times the same question. If you dont like the answer is your problem, i cant change the answer to fit your interests.
And Haos, you arent an Ipad, you are multitasking,so "meanwhile the built finishes" doesnt mean you can do any better thing,in ReactOS area or in any other area of the Real Life, than answering Nute.But of course you can spend your time as you wish :)
I´m pretty sure he will not continue sharing his trolling opinions if nobody answers him,and also answering him is shadowing our cool work for the rest of cool users.And this is my last word dedicated to Nute behavior. After hanging his complains in his website he has reached the top of my patience.

jgwright
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by jgwright »

Just as this thread was looking interesting and positive - albeit in a slightly off-topic sort of way - then nute comes along.

Sof_T
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Sof_T »

jgwright wrote:Just as this thread was looking interesting and positive - albeit in a slightly off-topic sort of way - then nute comes along.
:lol:

b4dc0d3r
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Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by b4dc0d3r »

@Haos: I wish I had time, that's why I offered to assist instead of committing to it. If nothing else, a terse summary of the various blogs in one place such as a dedicated topic or wiki page can give visibility to the blogs, as well as a single source of unofficial updates to supplement the newsletter, and can be done by someone with little technical knowledge. I'd post one or two updates, get dragged away by real life, and feel bad for abandoning the effort. Helping a person with a specific question in the interest of spreading information would be worthwhile, and is the best use of my time in my opinion.

Related to getting more info out: I assume people here read slashdot, but in case someone doesn't there's this openhatch thing. Not terribly interesting to me, but maybe someone else sees relevance.
http://ask.slashdot.org/story/10/03/14/ ... -You-Avoid
And direct link: http://openhatch.org/+projects/

And while I'm here:
The SVN logs are not magical. They do not automatically make sense to anyone who reads them. It is disrespectful to say that limited comments in an SVN log are not going to create more questions than they answer.
I did offer to help with that, in case you missed it in the previous post or previously in this post. I currently have 0 new messages, and real life work to do, so maybe I'll catch you, or someone else, on the flip side. Besides, release activity isn't hidden in technical jargon.

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