When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Here you can discuss ReactOS related topics.

Moderator: Moderator Team

SuperDog
Translation Team
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:52 am

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by SuperDog »

Please do not speak on behalf of others (using "we" and "our"). This is only your opinion. And no, my prev. post doesn't imply that problem has to be unknown.

hto
Developer
Posts: 2193
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:43 pm

Post by hto »

Z98, just delete those falsities. I would, but can't. No need to draw up another unrealizable plan.

Haos
Test Team
Posts: 2954
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:42 am
Contact:

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Haos »

It either implies its unknown or that it doesn't have priority set high enough. For both, there is still a single:
"We know, there are worse problems out there and we cant split ourselves in half"

Do you request a list of people from ReactOS team, supporting this statement regarding our discussion here? I can provide it if you don't believe me.

bugboy
Developer
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:23 pm

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by bugboy »

Aeneas,

First, I think the aggressive attitude sometimes comes from some that get a bit annoyed at answering the constant repeat questions like you gave in your example, at seeing complaints on the forums because some goal that was put on a roadmap was not met. I consider myself very laid back and I sometimes get a little annoyed at some of the posts. Are there those that are just down aggressive? Yes probably, but I would say they are very few.
For example, when will USB support be done. I can only answer when I get it done. I am currently the only one working on it and I do have a full time job and other responsibilities to my family. I do what I can when I can. God knows if I could get by with no sleep and spend that time coding, I would do it.

I disagree with the “go do it yourself” thing as you call it as being ridiculous. You frame it in a negative manner and I hope that anyone who has conveyed that messages here has framed it in a more positive light. From what I understand the “do it yourself” is one of the great things about open source. You don't like they way its done or how long it takes then you are free get the source code and do it yourself or help out. I think your analogies are way off base.

As far as I know, no one is getting paid for there work on ReactOS. I think most of the developers here are dedicated to seeing this project succeed. But with the limited number of developers we can only do so much.

Yaraslau
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:47 pm
Location: Беларусь/Belarus, ex-USSR

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Yaraslau »

Haos wrote:If you dont like it, you might as well.......
Haos wrote:You assume we do not see.......... Why don't you check............ You clearly omit .............
Haos wrote:Do you request......... if you don't........
Haos, please, would you be so kind to give more concrete expression?

I obviously can't speak for other members, but would like to clear out my position. Who is responsible for the "face" of Reactos site? May I contact and ask that person(s) to add one string (or remove one)? If this work (connected with one string) is too hard - why not write it down here like "Sorry, I (we) can't (we'll not, would not like to) fix it". That's all. Thanks!

Best regards to all developers and supporters.

cmoibenlepro
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:44 pm
Location: Canada

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by cmoibenlepro »

why not write it down here like "Sorry, I (we) can't (we'll not, would not like to) fix it". That's all. Thanks!
OK, then. Fair enough.

Sorry, I can't fix it.


Satisfied?

SuperDog
Translation Team
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:52 am

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by SuperDog »

Only Fireball can edit the Roadmap page on Wiki.
You might want to talk to him, but this is a dodgy subject.

Aeneas
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:09 pm

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Aeneas »

Dear bugboy,

I am very grateful that you are working on the USB support, you are having all my respect and gratitude for this. I think your field is an excellent example of the type of situation that I am remarking on: you are according to your own words not shying the effort in any way, and yet - there IS NO USB support! This is not your fault, but rather the result of the complexity of the task being attributed to one person only who happens to be a living human being that has a life besides ReactOS.

Call it as you will, give any good and plausible reasons, but this changes nothing: I repeat, there is no USB support. - Eventually, thanks to your abilities, there will be.

But there is none at the moment and nobody knows when there will be nor can the situation be alleviated somehow. - And THAT is frustrating, at least in my eyes, this "unchangeability" and "unplanability" of the situation. This "we do what we can" without any notion of "how could we progress, say, until 2014". This does not "have to" be so. I mean, NetBSD has USB support. (Yes, my favourite Unixoid.)

I think ReactOS is behaving a bit... like a barbarian army. Many "heroes", great, strong, smart... but without any clear formation. Yes, that IS a weakness, and while as a warrior each one may be admirable, as a group the result is suboptimal. I mean, let us be objective: do you really think that it is proper for a project with the potential of ReactOS to be where it is after this many years of development?

I have, however, started to really view it as a hobby of the developers.

Haos
Test Team
Posts: 2954
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:42 am
Contact:

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Haos »

Aeneas wrote:But there is none at the moment and nobody knows when there will be nor can the situation be alleviated somehow. - And THAT is frustrating, at least in my eyes, this "unchangeability" and "unplanability" of the situation. This "we do what we can" without any notion of "how could we progress, say, until 2014". This does not "have to" be so. I mean, NetBSD has USB support. (Yes, my favourite Unixoid.)
We have no idea how we can progress until 2014, as our crystal fortune-telling ball is still broken, sorry about that. I hate situations where promised are made and not fulfilled. If i am unable to say when i`ll be able to finish something up, i will not make up a random date, just for the comfort of one asking the question. Is it that difficult to understand?
Aeneas wrote:I think ReactOS is behaving a bit... like a barbarian army. Many "heroes", great, strong, smart... but without any clear formation. Yes, that IS a weakness, and while as a warrior each one may be admirable, as a group the result is suboptimal. I mean, let us be objective: do you really think that it is proper for a project with the potential of ReactOS to be where it is after this many years of development?
It is not a question what formation is optimal for ReactOS, rather its about what formation will ever work for this project. Any model with leadership stronger than current one, is simply out of question. Such leadership/decision making would have to be forced with some leverage upon project participants. In normal business model, its an employment relation or just direct economical one (simply speaking, being paid to listen to someone). Here, when all participation is purely volountary, there is no such leverage. Thus it seems logical to me, that any attempt of enforcing stronger leadership, for example setting deadlines, assigning/forcing certain areas to participants, will only result in clashes, conflicts and effectively in developers leaving this project. Clearly such solution is nothing but suicidal. To sum up, i do believe our current model is very close to optimal, given the conditions.
Aeneas wrote:I have, however, started to really view it as a hobby of the developers.
It never has been anything else. It's you guys, idolising it.

Aeneas
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:09 pm

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Aeneas »

Dear Haos,

I fully consent, especially to your last explanation about leadership. I actually admire your leadership's patience. Yes, this is precisely what I meant: I doubt, things being as they are, that the developers are actually WILLING to be part of a more strictly coordinated project. (That is also why I stopped suggesting future ventures - I just noticed that the developers DO NOT WANT any other progress model.) I do not think the leadership can do much about it.

For a hobby, this does not matter. You could have as a hobby counting the hairs of your cat. Nobody could tell you anything.

But ReactOS is presenting itself in a rather double fashion here: on the one hand, it is hiding behind the "hobby OS" disguise whenever criticised, on the other hand it wants to play in the league of Linux, BSD or even Plan 9, rather than in the league of Lunix, ELKS, Zotos, etc. In particular, read Wikipedia (where ReactOS is listed as HAVING USB support - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison ... ng_systems ) or any other discussions about ReactOS on the internet. As soon as it is criticised how ReactOS is progressing, even to the point of calling it vaporware, there is a vocal response by somebody (and on the writing style you can even sometimes recognise the participants of this forum) justifying it and being harsh to the critics... instead of actually answering that it is just a hobby OS, not different than MenuetOS or thelike.

It is either a hobby OS, and then all criticism is void, or it is a serious open source OS, and yes, then a planned, open and not too slow progress can indeed be expected by the general public, yes. A direct consequence of this is what kind of funding or support from others ReactOS can expect.

If requiring some more strict organisation is so "bad", if expecting progress is "bad", but only a rather ineffective laissez-faire is "good", then let me quote Lady Macbeth it in Act 1, Scene 5:

"...thou wouldst be great;
Art not without ambition, but without
The illness should attend it: what thou wouldst highly,
That wouldst thou holily; wouldst not play false,
And yet wouldst wrongly win..."

Haos
Test Team
Posts: 2954
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:42 am
Contact:

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by Haos »

it wants to play in the league of Linux, BSD or even Plan 9, rather than in the league of Lunix, ELKS, Zotos, etc.
Please prove that its just not a part of how you guys perceive ReactOS.
It is either a hobby OS, and then all criticism is void, or it is a serious open source OS, and yes, then a planned, open and not too slow progress can indeed be expected by the general public, yes. A direct consequence of this is what kind of funding or support from others ReactOS can expect.
At the present moment its a hobby OS, which funding is close to none, with developers commiting their free time, besides their full time job. I`m glad that our project is triggering such attention and expectations, but please notice we are rather playing those down, not pushing up.

Because of our limited resources and developing model our devs agree to participate in, we simply can't do more. Nothing will stop us from trying to change it, but again, only if its possible. Sorry to disappoint you guys.

In this situation, everyone that helps us out on a permanent basis, contrary to everything that happens to discourage one from doing so, is especially valuable for u. Steep learning curve that is present here is not helping with this as well.

Addenum: in case someone misreads second sentence by Aeneas, i`m not a leader by any kind. My opinions are solely personal, reflecting only my experience with the project. This is by no chance an official statement by ReactOS Team, as i`m not entitled to announce any.

livestrong2109
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:42 pm

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by livestrong2109 »

Haos first off why are you personalizing a simple discussion. Users are simply looking for accountability, and no one intends to criticize the project, but rather improve on what already exists. I've requested many times to become an Admin, and even suggested in writing a new road map and monthly news letter. And all I get back is become more involved or contact so and so, who never responds.

Also where the hell is this new website. I offered to code for it and never got a response. hell I am a full time web developer after all...

People want to help RoS, but the project is such an unorganized mess and the developers seem to have their own little club in the IRC. We need management and order and I'm willing to fill some of the gaps but you guys need to extend a degree of trust and allow me the chance to do so.
Wesley Howard
ROS Contributor - Web Developer

FORCE
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:09 pm

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by FORCE »

I think 0.3.12 should be dropped, ARWINSS builds are more compatible with lot of software than current normal release.

ARWINSS is only way to fast future.

gonzoMD
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:49 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by gonzoMD »

yes, but there are still many bugs in ARWINSS, if it would used now there would be many things more to do. I think it should stay at paralel-development 'til it is near bugfree.

I think IF it will become the temporaly standard subsystem, it will happen at the begining or the middle of the 0.4 series, because it is a must have for the beta

jgwright
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 10:44 am

Re: When does 0.3.12 will come out?

Post by jgwright »

livestrong2109 wrote:Haos first off why are you personalizing a simple discussion. Users are simply looking for accountability, and no one intends to criticize the project, but rather improve on what already exists. I've requested many times to become an Admin, and even suggested in writing a new road map and monthly news letter. And all I get back is become more involved or contact so and so, who never responds.

Also where the hell is this new website. I offered to code for it and never got a response. hell I am a full time web developer after all...

People want to help RoS, but the project is such an unorganized mess and the developers seem to have their own little club in the IRC. We need management and order and I'm willing to fill some of the gaps but you guys need to extend a degree of trust and allow me the chance to do so.
I sympathise. I think it might be to do with RosCMS. Six months for a purely visual website makeover and the impossibility of sanitizing (or just removing the link) a roadmap info that should be a three-minute job point to this.

According to Ohloh, RosCMS falls down through having too few comments in the code:
Across all PHP projects on Ohloh, 31% of all source code lines are comments. For RosCMS, this figure is only 14%. This lack of comments puts RosCMS among the lowest one-third of all PHP projects on Ohloh. A high number of comments might indicate that the code is well-documented and organized, and could be a sign of a helpful and disciplined development team.
Is RosCMS meant to do more a lot more than just manage content on the website - ie are there extra project management features in there as well? I sure hope it's the latter or it would seem to be a millstone. However if it's the latter then it's probably failing.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Semrush [Bot] and 4 guests