size of reactos

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dark
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Post by dark »

the idea of including all the downloadable programs (browsers, basic apps, etc.) in the package manager sounds like a good idea, you're not forced to download anything that you don't want & the programs are always up to date

Gasmann
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Post by Gasmann »

Stead wrote:i can't get over this discussion, you point out it saves bandwidth if its not included, but then what if you want a cd to put on several computers, then your using a hell of a lot more bandwidth
Huh? You could just write the downloaded files on an extra cd and then use this to install the packages on the other pc's (the package manager must support importing of packages from other sources than the official server to do this) So you don't have to download it several times if you don't want to.
Stead wrote:why can't you juse have 2 iso's one basic reactos only, one with a few bundled app's, and i'm pretty sure theres leightweight browsers that'll only add a couple of 100k at the most, a whopping 3 minutes or so extra on thedownload for unfourantly people on 56k
Yes Browser like "OffbyOne". But unfortunately this browsers don't support javascript etc. what most users (at least the not so experienced) need. So you still had to download a "fully functional" browser.
Stead wrote:and such its very well saying many peopel have a browser they already want to use, but what about peopel who do'nt know everything about computers but what a free os, they put reactos on, they stare at it, theres nothing to do, no means of getting onthe internet to look around
Is this really a problem? The package manager could be started automatically at first ReactOS boot and show the user how to download software (or use already downloaded packages). And if you don't have an internet connection on your pc there could be a web interface for the package manager where you could download the packages through a web browser from another os/pc, burn it on cd / put it on usb mass storage etc. and import it into your reactos installation. The point is that you only download what you need and once you have it you don't have to download it again, you should just be able to import the packages into another ros installation.
Stead wrote:i think a simple browser possibly an email client, a basic word processing thing and a calculator, maybe a simple game should be included, and option to install during hte install process, its not exactly gonna add a huge amount, at least that way if someone isntalls it they can do basic word processing, check there emails, browse the net, and use there overly priced calculator with a pretty screen to add up numbers, an incredibly basic spreadsheet maybe nice, just one that can add and subtract numbers, i don't see anypoint in letting people download something which is essentially useless on its own.
This all could be in the package manager tree.
Stead wrote:as for myself personally, i like internet explorer, why? because its intergrated into windows, i've used others in the past but since aol took over netscape i've been using ie. infact i can't think of anyone off hand who doesn't use ie
I don't :) And I think many others don't, too. And again, what is so hard? You just click on the browser you want to download in package manager and then download it. This does take a bit more time as if it would be included in the cd, yes, but therefore you have the freedom of choice.
dark wrote:the idea of including all the downloadable programs (browsers, basic apps, etc.) in the package manager sounds like a good idea, you're not forced to download anything that you don't want & the programs are always up to date
This is exactly what I mean.

MadRat
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Post by MadRat »

A suggestion for the package manager - how about buttons for "suggested applications" not included with it?

ROS could steer people towards freeware, shareware, and commercialwares that are highly recommended.
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Stead
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Post by Stead »

well i was thinking more towards the 'average' user i guess, the problem with isntall reactos and then just going on teh internet straight away..well not everyone has the internet, ok i know most people do, but i can think of people i know who don't have it.

also this magical user i speak of will have to know how to get the internet up and running, thats why i feel 2 iso's would be better or one with a distro, don't need to go crazy just a couple of programs to make a computer a little usable, sorry if my last message seemed a bit, agressive, i was very tired and just had an argument with a friend about something pointless! didn't realised i double posted either!

Yann64
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Post by Yann64 »

Most of the discussion that has been going on on this thread seems to be a bit irrevelant.
I supposed the goal of the ReactOS fundation/devellopers/website was to focus on the development of the ReactOS operating system, and its distribution. If this is correct, only downloads for the source-code and the binaries of ReactOS should be available on this website.
Now, nothing prevents anybody to create a distro with all the opensource/freewares/sherwares/etc softwares he wants to distribute with it, and there is 99% chances it will happen in the future. Just leave the ReactOS website free from other softwares, its only purpose is to distribute ReactOS ONLY.
If we distribute other softwares, there will always be people complaining about "why is this one distributed when this one, wich I find better, is not".
So if you want ReactOS only, go to the ReactOS website, and if you want ReactOS with other applications, you will, in the future, surely be able to download this from a distro website.
I am, by the way, seriously thinking of making a distro, with webbrowser, office suite, etc , but this will be hosted on my website. I do not want to bloat ReactOS website with too much softwares.

chris319
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Post by chris319 »

if you don't have an internet connection on your pc there could be a web interface for the package manager where you could download the packages through a web browser from another os/pc, burn it on cd / put it on usb mass storage etc. and import it into your reactos installation.
Wouldn't it be easier just to order the CD?

Floyd
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Post by Floyd »

chris319 wrote:
if you don't have an internet connection on your pc there could be a web interface for the package manager where you could download the packages through a web browser from another os/pc, burn it on cd / put it on usb mass storage etc. and import it into your reactos installation.
Wouldn't it be easier just to order the CD?
oh how fun. waiting on the post office of all things.

and if you're going to go to someone else's house, and if they have broadband, why not just download the ISO you want there.

or spare yourself the waiting 3-4 days and download it using something like GetRight. over a night. or possibly two. even less hassle.
Last edited by Floyd on Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Floyd
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Post by Floyd »

MadRat wrote:A suggestion for the package manager - how about buttons for "suggested applications" not included with it?

ROS could steer people towards freeware, shareware, and commercialwares that are highly recommended.
that would be keen.

i still would like an ISO 0 (stripped and bare bones) and ISO 1 (actually having some basic applications for the others that don't want to hassle with it all)
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cuppm
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Post by cuppm »

Actully the idea of "CD 0" and "CD 1" are quite good. CD 0 being of course just the plain ReactOS install, kind of like the bootable installer ISOs are now. And CD 1 being more of a standard windows install CD with basic applications.

But I think we should use different names for the ISOs. CD 0 may be find for the people who want it, but not CD 1 for the general public (who will primarily use this disc).

Floyd
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Post by Floyd »

cuppm wrote:But I think we should use different names for the ISOs. CD 0 may be find for the people who want it, but not CD 1 for the general public (who will primarily use this disc).
The names are moot. These are just the labels people have been using in this thread.
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luis02128
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ReactOS goals, vision, OS Barebone schematics, etx...

Post by luis02128 »

:D :) :( :o x Hello my name is Luis, call me Lui for short.

I believe the idea behind ReactOS is to create an OS that is user friendly. If we think about it for a moment, that mifht mean that we will need to get some ideas from the windows OS because its more user friendly.

Ok now lets get working:

Here are some debates I've been hearing:

Debate 1: OS size

I would rather have to deal with less if less was possible. Although the OS size matters id like to think the following:

It is Ok for the OS size to grow if it means that the OS will become a better OS for all of the common users.

That said it should not matter what size the OS is however we should try to keep it as low as possible.

Debate A1: Should React OS include basic tools and apps?

Yes! Yes! Yes! What is an OS without tools, and basic apps?

All Comercial and even Open Project OS include some basic apps and tools.

What tools?

Well we need ideas here....

What aoos?
well we need ideas here too...
( i know some of you mentioned a few)

However since we are an open source project we should try to seek and incorporate open source software into our system. And as we all would want to create one of the best OS, we should seek and find the best of the best apps for our OS. Now we should start looking and testing, and give some feed back, then later we can all discuss the different tools and basic apps that should be included in this OS.

Debate 3: Package Manager?

Yea its nice to have one of those. But as someone pointed out earlier there are going to be a lot of difficulties unless we mantain a website specific for the package manager. so what are we going to do?
A package manager should not be our priority at the moment. The reason behind that is that like a user friendly OS we should be able to execute a setup file and be able to install our software. Even though if we setup our own package manager, and website. We could keep the latest version of the applications, inside the OS, a very nice feature for all the users. Something like that would probably not be hard to setup. But we will need a lot of bandwidth space, but of course there are other alternatives.
Another thing we can do is incorporate a side app to Add/Remove Program type of app inside the OS making a os utility that can only add remove programs but that can also update them. The other thing is that some apps actually connect to their websites and automatically update.
Package Manager should not be a prioity, although it would be a nice feature to have. (maybe later on when we have a working OS.

Debate 4: Cds, Distros, Versions.

I dont see what the issue is here we can have it all. (well not exactly)

- a stripped down ISO of ROS, with no (or a few) additional applications
- a package manager for downloading and installing applications
- an ISO with ROS and a collection of applications
- an ISO with only those applications

All right i wanna see post replies for this, we need to move forward.

Mrkaras
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Post by Mrkaras »

Debate 1: OS size

I would rather have to deal with less if less was possible. Although the OS size matters id like to think the following:

It is Ok for the OS size to grow if it means that the OS will become a better OS for all of the common users.

That said it should not matter what size the OS is however we should try to keep it as low as possible.
My thoughts exactly

Sarocet
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Re: ReactOS goals, vision, OS Barebone schematics, etx...

Post by Sarocet »

luis02128 wrote: Debate A1: Should React OS include basic tools and apps?

Yes! Yes! Yes! What is an OS without tools, and basic apps?

All Comercial and even Open Project OS include some basic apps and tools.
Of course. The main goal Microsoft had when started was having a lot of tools (well, in fact, only a bit) with the OS so you didn't need to start buying programs because you had a little of everithing (Paint, Calc, WordPad, then also IE, Outlook Express...). Of course, they were not too good, but as we add free software we can provide a better one. ;)

luis02128 wrote: Debate 3: Package Manager?

Yea its nice to have one of those. But as someone pointed out earlier there are going to be a lot of difficulties unless we mantain a website specific for the package manager. so what are we going to do?
A package manager should not be our priority at the moment. The reason behind that is that like a user friendly OS we should be able to execute a setup file and be able to install our software. Even though if we setup our own package manager, and website. We could keep the latest version of the applications, inside the OS, a very nice feature for all the users. Something like that would probably not be hard to setup. But we will need a lot of bandwidth space, but of course there are other alternatives.
Another thing we can do is incorporate a side app to Add/Remove Program type of app inside the OS making a os utility that can only add remove programs but that can also update them. The other thing is that some apps actually connect to their websites and automatically update.
Package Manager should not be a prioity, although it would be a nice feature to have. (maybe later on when we have a working OS.
A lot of bandwidth? Well, we could need it, or we could not. The first URL should be able to redirect to other sites. We could also have a distributed package system like the bittorrent one. See http://reactos.com/wiki/index.php/Talk: ... ns/General discussion.

MadRat
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Post by MadRat »

Basic tools for notepad, ping, finger, etc. should be only a couple MB. Making it the top option in the package manager would suffice.
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chris319
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Post by chris319 »

All this talk about bandwidth and a "distributed package system" misses a fundamental point that's been hammered away at a number of times in this thread. ReactOS is Windows-compatible. It is not a proprietary OS. You want Winamp? Go here:

http://www.winamp.com/player/free.php

and the very latest version is yours, free for the downloading. This requires absolutely no server space, no bandwidth and no upkeep on the part of ReactOS. It is a zero-maintenance solution as far as ReactOS is concerned. I've said it before: you are not dealing with RPM, DEB or BSD packages. There is no need for a "ReactOS repository" because vendors already do this for you. A repository will merely duplicate those resources.

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