size of reactos

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Dr. Fred
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Post by Dr. Fred »

Nobody has made a convincing case why a "package manager" is needed.
A Package Manger can update all the software on your PC with one click.

And you can just choose to install lots of software and then leave your Pc allone.
Where do you want ReactOS to go today ?

cuppm
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Post by cuppm »

ReactOS like Windows must contain at least some basic applications in it to make it useful out of box. Stuff like the calculator, notepad, web browser, media player. Email client doesn't matter to me, but there are good arguements for it.

Antivirus and Firewall are nessecities in todays computing world. But whether they should be in the default install I'm not sure. At the very least there should be some convienient way to install them immediately during or after installation.

For those that whine about Firefox being an old version when somebody installs it 6 months down the road, so what. ReactOS will be an old version at that point too. That's why you have the update tool. Hell when I install Windows, it installs an old version of IE, but Windows at that point is out of date. That's why I run Windows Update.

MadRat
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Post by MadRat »

And to futureproof the package manager, either it can self update over the internet or launch a browser window to the latest version. A little popup on first launch (complete with a checkbox to disable the message) would guide new users to an update.
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dark
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Post by dark »

will this package manager even work with most of the software already out there, most of it's commercial windows software and i don't think they'll be giving out information on how to do update their software through code to 3rd party programs. (closed source code) i don't see how it would be that useful if very little software supported it. (also it sounds like something that would create a massive hole for viruses specific to reactos to come into your computer).

At least make it possible to remove the package manager is all that i ask. (easily from add/remove programs would be good)

Dr. Fred
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Post by Dr. Fred »

dark wrote:At least make it possible to remove the package manager is all that i ask. (easily from add/remove programs would be good)
Why do want to remove it ? As long as don't start it it does not border you. Lot's of tools come with my windows I never used.
Where do you want ReactOS to go today ?

cuppm
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Post by cuppm »

Dr. Fred wrote:
dark wrote:At least make it possible to remove the package manager is all that i ask. (easily from add/remove programs would be good)
Why do want to remove it ? As long as don't start it it does not border you. Lot's of tools come with my windows I never used.
Yeah, lots of tools do come that I don't use either. But they're pretty much all removable.

I think it should be removable, too. Everything that wouldn't render the system unusable should be removable (maybe with a warning message of some sorts for the more critical things). What the stupid user does with it at that point... ;)

Dr. Fred
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Post by Dr. Fred »

Yes, yes of cause you can remove the exe-files (and dlls) of all tool you don't need.

Of cause you can remove explorer if you got another shell installed.

Maybe you can even remove the win32 subsystem, once the other subsystems (like Linux) are done.

But using the Add/Remove-Programs Tab like dark wanted.
Where do you want ReactOS to go today ?

chris319
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Post by chris319 »

Dr. Fred wrote:
Nobody has made a convincing case why a "package manager" is needed.
A Package Manger can update all the software on your PC with one click.
Let's think this through.
will this package manager even work with most of the software already out there, most of it's commercial windows software and i don't think they'll be giving out information on how to do update their software through code to 3rd party programs. (closed source code) i don't see how it would be that useful if very little software supported it.
This is the question people should be asking. First of all, no package manager will be able to update all of the software on your PC. It won't be able to update commercial applications with proprietary upgrade schemes. To make your package manager work, either a repository would have to be established, meaning that server space and download bandwidth would have to be provided, and then someone would have to maintain this repository, which means obtaining the latest versions of potentially hundreds of freeware and shareware applications. If you only support a handful of applications it will be of limited usefulness. Someone would then have to figure out how to interface with all of the various installation/update schemes. Either that, or your package manager would have to know how to go directly to the upgrade sites of the applications themselves and download and launch upgrades automatically. This would be particularly challenging because in the Windows world there is no standard for package management and installation such as rpm or deb for Linux.

A point I've made over and over in this thread is that a package manager is a duplication of effort when you can simply go to the web site of just about any application and KNOW you're getting the most up-to-date version using their server and bandwidth. I'm not saying a package manager shouldn't be done if someone is so motivated, but I don't think people should plan on making a heretofore unseen package manager the centerpiece of ReactOS without considering the practical aspects.

chris319
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Post by chris319 »

meklort wrote:After having used portage with gentoo, I would never want to go back to another distro or to windows, just beacuse of how hard it is to install anything. With portage, all you have to do is tell it to install somthing, and it does it, you dont even have to find the link, download it, run the installer, or anything, it just happens.
You're aware that we're not discussing Linux, right?
Antivirus and Firewall are nessecities in todays computing world. But whether they should be in the default install I'm not sure. At the very least there should be some convienient way to install them immediately during or after installation.
When you get past the bare essentials, everybody's going to have their own ideas of which antivirus, firewall, etc. is best. If you include antivirus X in the default installation, there are going to be people who want antivirus Y or Z. The first hurdle would be getting everyone to agree on which one to use.

Meklort
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Post by Meklort »

chris319 wrote:You're aware that we're not discussing Linux, right?
Yes, I am, All im saying is that I would rather have a package manager than nothing at all.

MadRat
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Post by MadRat »

What's cool about the whole idea is that the same package manager should work on a Windows machine, too.
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Gabriel Vigo
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Post by Gabriel Vigo »

Elledan wrote:- a stripped down ISO of ROS, with no (or a few) additional applications
- a package manager for downloading and installing applications
- an ISO with ROS and a collection of applications
- an ISO with only those applications
I like that, me too... ;-) It's a great idea!.
cuppm wrote:ReactOS like Windows must contain at least some basic applications in it to make it useful out of box. Stuff like the calculator, notepad, web browser, media player. Email client doesn't matter to me, but there are good arguements for it.

For those that whine about Firefox being an old version when somebody installs it 6 months down the road, so what. ReactOS will be an old version at that point too. That's why you have the update tool. Hell when I install Windows, it installs an old version of IE, but Windows at that point is out of date. That's why I run Windows Update.
That's it!!! :D You have read my mind... That's the point,
....and that's why I don't like the word: 'distros'! 8)
Dr. Fred wrote:ReactOs is not Linux, but it's neither Windows. Your reactation
gives me this impression: "I don't know that, it's evil."
Oh, well, sorry but I don't want to make a mess with this :| (don't misinterpret my opinion). I confess that I don't like too much Linux, but neither I think or say that Linux is an "evil" O.S. I've been using Windows for 9 years, and I've been testing Linux for 1 year, and really love the Windows system (especially Windows 2000, not Windows XP). If Windows be free and Open Source, I really never would have tried Linux neither ReactOS. So, if ReactOS tries to be a "Windows Clone" I think that the 'Windows users' have the priority to express your opinion, because ReactOS will "look" and be more like Windows, than Linux (look the thread "Importance of UI"). So, all I want to say it's that we have more important things to talk, before talk about 'distributions' (or in the Windows world: 'versions')...

For me (and this is only my opinion) Linux is, and will be, a O.S. for geeks (whether or no), and Windows will be the 'most easy to use' O.S., until ReactOS comes out. Why? Because the 90% of the Software, Drivers and Games are developed for Windows, and not Linux, and because Linux was based in a complex (command line) system as was Unix. Linux can be 'user friendly' now, but the 'heart' (kernel) of it, it isn't. Why I love ReactOS? Because it will be 100% Windows compatible, and it will 'look and feel' like Windows, not Linux. And I repeat again: this is only my personal opinion. I don't want to quarrel with nobody.
Dr. Fred wrote:ReactOs is a operating system for everyone who wants to use it.
That's right! Anyone can use it, I do not run counter to that. :)
ReactOS is, and will be free, so everyone can use it freely. :wink:

Meklort
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Post by Meklort »

Gabriel Vigo wrote:
Elledan wrote:- a stripped down ISO of ROS, with no (or a few) additional applications
- a package manager for downloading and installing applications
- an ISO with ROS and a collection of applications
- an ISO with only those applications
I like that, me too... ;-) It's a great idea!.
I also agree. This porbably would be the best solution, makes everyone happy (I think). And yes, we should tailor to the windows users, sinde its a clode of that operating system.

chris319
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Post by chris319 »

- a stripped down ISO of ROS, with no (or a few) additional applications
The consensus is that a web browser should definitely be included. As this ISO is intended for low-bandwidth downloads, that should be it as far as applications go.
- an ISO with only those applications
Why would you have a ReactOS ISO without ReactOS?

chris319
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Post by chris319 »

To Dr. Fred:

I have read the description of your package manager in the WIKI. I see that you have started by designing the GUI first. The first question in my mind is, how are you going to handle versioning?

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