It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Here you can discuss ReactOS related topics.

Moderator: Moderator Team

livestrong2109
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:42 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by livestrong2109 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:23 pm

EmuandCo or hto - Please Just Lock This Thread, People Need to understand that releases will be published when they are ready, not when they start wining about though their own ignorance toward ReactOS.
Wesley Howard
ROS Contributor - Web Developer

greenie
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:10 am

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by greenie » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:04 am

Well I don't think it's going to get locked. I think I've read 3 threads where thats been requested today. Version numbers have no meaning at the moment. Apart from the milestones to be completed. Which I'm happy with. To release version faster they would be required to do more work. Which really can't be asked when they do it for free.

Though thinking about the 0.7% of your salary comment. That's $300. I don't think I would get anything for my money. Dev's wouldn't work harder. At the moment no one can be employed full time. It would take 100 donations of decent money to employ someone on a bad wage. I mean it could contribute to hosting costs. Any advertising really isn't suitable at the moment.

I actually know nothing about how much the reactos foundation has. How much it needs to speed up development. or where the money goes. Maybe this should be considered? I mean it might take 2 or more years to raise $50000 enough to employ someone full time . Though it would still speed things up. If I could see where my money was going and the progress of the donations. I would be much more willing to donate.

cmoibenlepro
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:44 pm
Location: Canada

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by cmoibenlepro » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:40 am

if you don't like the direction this project is taking, go find something else better to do with your time than whining.
I never meant that. Sorry if I offended you. :oops:
I mean it might take 2 or more years to raise $50000 enough to employ someone full time
Indian developers could be hired for much less. :lol:

cuttysark
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:20 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by cuttysark » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:29 pm

I understand your impatience but ROS will never see day light as you expect. It's just a hobby for the dev's.

You just have to decide if you want to follow their pace and improvements or find another project to put some pressure on.

WINE needed 15 years to reach an controverse version 1.0. There is no Canonical, Microsoft, Sun, Novell or Red Hat behind the scene...

BR
Cutty.

EmuandCo
Developer
Posts: 4334
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:52 pm
Location: Germany, Bavaria, Steinfeld
Contact:

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by EmuandCo » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:36 pm

15 years to start from 0, yes. We can use quite some code from them, dont forget that!
Image
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

florian
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by florian » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:26 pm

Dany0 wrote: [...] What's the problem, you know I didn't watch it last year or two, but again :!: :?:

It's just the nowhere it's going with this tempo. I just dunno, is it really so hard & complex that it can't be done in 2 months?

Just ignore or delete this if I am wrong, you understand, I just don't know much things and search gives no results.... :D
Well just compare our approximate number of developers and the number of 93.000 MS employees in over 100 countries (2009).

Aeneas
Posts: 465
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:09 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by Aeneas » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:07 pm

You know what? Your number of developers is not so bad, actually, what shall I say - bravo! The true question is: How can it be _increased_?

Indeed, I would be interested in what you have to suggest about that.

I believe a good organisation with some discipline would largely enhance the "snowball effect". So, suppose you need to finance them: please let us look at the link for donations, in particular wire transfer, under http://www.reactos.org/de/foundation_donate.html. From what I read in the web about Christoph von Wittich, apparently he is a very respectable person, engaging in the development of ReactOS with big efforts. - But he is a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL! Would you wire money for Linux to Linus PERSONALLY?

Or maybe you would like to have serious correspondence with ReactOS? On NO promiment place is there a real-world-address! http://www.reactos.org/de/contact.html is just insufficient!

Please try to see it with the eyes of a corporate employee: You find that project interesting and want to tell your boss. And WHAT will you tell him? "There is this project without postal address, so sorry I cannot tell you it, and I suggest we donate money. Well, we either have to find out how PayPal works, yeah, I know we never ever used it, or we can just donate to this guy, Christoph, but believe me, he is VERY reliable."

So, please say: WHO is "ReactOS". Is it a church? Is it a corporation? Is it a foundation? Is it a... ?

Other question, how do people even HEAR of ReactOS? I mean, I searched quite a while a few years ago before, by chance, I first saw it. So, what marketing is there?

As to the number of MS employees, a lot of them are working on Office, Exchange, some maybe even on Zune, a good part are just nice secretaries... I do not think ReactOS is hopeless. ;)

EmuandCo
Developer
Posts: 4334
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:52 pm
Location: Germany, Bavaria, Steinfeld
Contact:

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by EmuandCo » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:22 pm

Noone said its hopeless. But more devs would be cool, yes.
Image
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

Yaraslau
Posts: 429
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:47 pm
Location: Беларусь/Belarus, ex-USSR

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by Yaraslau » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:23 pm

florian,

Microsoft has many developers (you mentioned 93.000 MS employees), but compare the size of Windows and ReactOS. Vast community of developers in large companies can't clean the sources as ROS developers did (do).

Maybe, big ROS developers community = messy code. In any case, I suppose ReactOS developers will write something that we all will be proud of.

Lone_Rifle
Test Team
Posts: 802
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:17 pm
Contact:

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by Lone_Rifle » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:39 pm

cmoibenlepro wrote:
if you don't like the direction this project is taking, go find something else better to do with your time than whining.
I never meant that. Sorry if I offended you. :oops:
No not you. Dany0.

florian
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by florian » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:52 pm

Aeneas wrote:As to the number of MS employees, a lot of them are working on Office, Exchange, some maybe even on Zune, a good part are just nice secretaries... I do not think ReactOS is hopeless. ;)
Of course and I know that not all MS employees are developers but I wanted to illustrate that we can`t compare ReactOS (and its process of development) with the Microsoft Corporation - as they have better ressources in terms of money, developers and other employees.
Yaraslau wrote:florian,

Microsoft has many developers (you mentioned 93.000 MS employees), but compare the size of Windows and ReactOS. Vast community of developers in large companies can't clean the sources as ROS developers did (do).

Maybe, big ROS developers community = messy code. In any case, I suppose ReactOS developers will write something that we all will be proud of.
Due to my lack of knowledge I cant judge the correlation between the quality of sourcecode and quantity of developers. Shouldn't be that rather a question of development skills and quality (manangement)?

florian
Posts: 453
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by florian » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:02 pm

Aeneas wrote:You know what? Your number of developers is not so bad, actually, what shall I say - bravo! The true question is: How can it be _increased_?

Indeed, I would be interested in what you have to suggest about that.
That's a good question. Unfortunately I can't answer it as I have never developed an approach to increase the number of our developer. But I'm gonna try to give you a short and certainly incomplete overview of what have been thought, discussed and partly done.

- I guess that our developers are going from door to door in order to get releases, reviews and interviews published in competent communities (ReactOS: Colin Fink im Interview) or specialised press (Chip.de - ReactOS).
- Developers participated at fosdem 2009. Compare the article on gulli.com (again German language).
- Then there was the idea of developing or strengthening the contacts with universities and students by vicmarcal and wildschwein.
- Some people claim a better organisation and documentation. Here you can find a current example.
- Furthermore you and I could use those banners / signatures in foreign forums. I like them.
- Others thought of an additional PR-team. But I don't know whether there is such a team or not.
- Your criticism of our insufficient contact page and your proposal of a real postal ReactOS adress is a good point to my mind. It should be changed.
- Last but not least - and in order to get back to our topic - frequent releases of ReactOS are demanded very often.

Well, we might continue and deepen these ideas but coordinating and implemting is a time consuming task...

vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2732
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by vicmarcal » Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:17 pm

florian wrote: - I guess that our developers are going from door to door in order to get releases, reviews and interviews published in competent communities (ReactOS: Colin Fink im Interview) or specialised press (Chip.de - ReactOS).
Well not really,they love more the coding than the PR(there are exceptions as always), that´s why i suggested the PR team ;).Finding interviews is a task consume action which i (personally) prefer they use it for coding that for finding.Of course after finding an interview they are the best to explain how this project works,but that is the last step of PR and not so much time consuming.
Btw,little by little some events contacts directly with us (like Imaginatica 2009 placed in Seville,Spain) which means our efforts are having results.
And on 25th Octuber there is going to be another meeting in Italy, in which ReactOS will have a quite nice representation :)


florian wrote:
- Others thought of an additional PR-team. But I don't know whether there is such a team or not.
There is a small-non-official ReactOS PR-Team. Small because not so much people has PR skills, or want to develop their PR skills.And Non-official since there isnt any statement which says we are official. :) We are working in the Darkness finding events or creating blogs(and sharing the news among us) to give more Info (from the User point of view) which complements the Technical (and quite valuable info) of the Newsletters.
Soon some ideas of this non-official PR Team will have results in the ReactOS Official site.
florian wrote: - Your criticism of our insufficient contact page and your proposal of a real postal ReactOS adress is a good point to my mind. It should be changed.
This was one of the first proposal from the Non-official PR Team. I had discovered that was quite difficult to contact with Open Source projects(for congratulating the Finalist projects in the Sourceforge Community Choice Awards), and i discovered that we were failing in the same point. Same thing happened on December when Imaginatica tried to contact us, and they didnt find any Contact email(maybe they could have given a look in the footage, but it is not obvious) so they contacted through an old developer which forwarded the email to our Dev-ML.

I talked this with Fireball and seems in our new site a Contact tab is going to be present.


I don't kidnapp more this Thread, but if anyone wants to help in PR, he/she can contact with me through a PM. Or via: vmartinez(heregoes an @]reactos.org
Helping on PR can mean: Criticism,Suggestions,Help,Blogging,anything which will help the relation with Users,with Events,and with Developers. You dont need Coding skills to help in this way.
Image

Witch
Posts: 293
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:30 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by Witch » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:51 am

regarding Deadlines & Releases

Next time some tourist asks these kind of questions give them this. And give them my condolences for their unhappiness over the ReactOS project. ;)


For a (somewhat theoretical) background of how open source works from a project prespective, I'd recommend reading:
The Cathedral and the Bazaar, Homesteading the Noosphere, and The Magic Cauldron by Eric Raymond.



Homesteading - Chapter: Gift Outcompetes Exchange
Indeed, it seems the prescription for highest software productivity is almost a Zen paradox;
if you want the most efficient production, you must give up trying to make programmers produce.

Handle their subsistence, give them their heads, and forget about deadlines. To a conventional manager this sounds crazily indulgent and doomed—but it is exactly the recipe with which the open-source culture is now clobbering its competition.

.

greenie
Posts: 145
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:10 am

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by greenie » Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:14 am

I agree deadlines are especially bad when not paying someone. You can not expect to push someone when they are doing something for free. The word deadlines is very harsh. Planning doesn't mean pushing people. It is simply some foresight. If you don't estimate times and dependencies for a project you can't budget and do cost/profits. so times aren't that important for volunteer work.
Though the best thing about planning can be morale. If done right.

I did one project just being handed tasks after completing a task. I just tried churning them out. not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Not very enjoyable. I hated it and everyone did.

On the next project there was an online todo list and when completed a tick would appear next to it and showed percent complete. Everyone found it much more enjoyable.

So project management isn't bad. It can just be done bad.
This project is very hard. Bugzilla is cluttered with bugs. Which of course can't even be addressed for a long time. Rather overwhelming. I tried to find patches people submitted it was imposable. I don't know how devs can do it.

I think we just have not reached "critical mass". When we get enough people, the current systems have been proven(mediawiki,bugzilla,appdb(winedb except ours is better :P))

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests