It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Here you can discuss ReactOS related topics.

Moderator: Moderator Team

theuserbl
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:49 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by theuserbl » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:37 pm

Dany0 wrote:But ROS team just ignores the time! I mean 0.4.2 is such a nice number, and some could hope he'd see it today but!
You are right. And the development is very slow.
At the front side stand:
Please bear in mind that ReactOS 0.3.10 is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is not recommended for everyday use.
But there are small projects, which are already further.
For example the advanced Mona-OS: http://www.monaos.org/
On the Release notes of the current Mona 0.3.0 release there stand:
http://monaos.svn.sourceforge.net/viewv ... iew=markup
This the first release of Mona for daily use.
[irony off]

Greatings
theuserbl

Aeneas
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:09 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by Aeneas » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:42 am

Deadlines are, in my view, a part of elementary self-discipline. If you do not keep deadlines, it means you do not pay any regard to your users and developers. If you are not transparent about the development, same thing. The only real difference between a commercial project and an idealistic project in this regard is that in the commercial project's deadlines are set by partly clueless management, so they are always way too early or way too late; here, the developers themselves set the deadlines. But once set they should be kept! - One of the reasons, I have heard, that e.g. Ubuntu is popular is actually also that they keep deadlines and people can RELY on that. One of the reasons Vista failed was that it was NOT on time. And one of the reasons Win7 has such a good name even BEFORE it is released to the broad public is that it will be on time. People just connect the notion of discipline to the notion of success.

Having a free OS on which you cannot rely is like having a car that will take you for free to work ... but it may come or may not come. Or like living in a flat for free... but being able to be thrown out at any moment. It is like an invitation to a free lunch that may or may not happen today. - At some point, its being "free" does not actually attract you any more, as it causes more disruption than it helps you. - To bring an example about ReactOS: I wanted to test several OSes (apart from my main one) on a hard disk which I prepared for that cause. I chose ReactOS shall go first, in its new release 0.3.11; 0.3.10 is already rather old, so my test results could be invalid for the new ReactOS. And? Instead of saying on the web-page that ReactOS will be late, there is STILL written that it may come out in September! That, naturally, disrupts my own plans, so that is why I actually gave up waiting for ReactOS yesterday, and put there Win7. I will not remove Win7 just because ReactOS comes out, surprisingly, at some unknown point in the future, maybe tomorrow, maybe in next June. I think that is not the optimum solution for ReactOS, either. If I knew WHEN it will come out, I could plan. But now I cannot. Just like many other people cannot make their plans.

As ReactOS is still alpha quality, I understand that there may be unforeseen circumstances which may arbitrary delay a release; that is why I believe the above criticism is not yet fully applicable to ReactOS. But if the "style" does not change, it definitely WILL be applicable. It would be like the BSD people who are just miserably wining about Linux, but actually, when they had the chance, they did not give a damn about the users that would be their later developers, and Linux is right now beating them hands down. (Yes, I prefer BSD, but let us face it.)

Now before there comes the reflex of criticism, please consider the following sentence, how true it is: "ReactOS, due to its transparancy, good financial management, clear progress and often and regular releases is permanently attracting users and developers and thus proceeding with great steps towards being an open source operating system that is a reliable alternative to Windows; its current status and organisation makes all involved parties proud to be part of it and enables them to contribute according to their best efforts." That sentence is surely quite true... but not "very" true, only "quite" true.

And please remove that "September". Just say 0.3.11 is on the way. "September" is actually embarassing - it is like a measurement of failure to be on time.

vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2732
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by vicmarcal » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:19 am

Aeneas wrote:Ubuntu is popular is actually also that they keep deadlines and people can RELY on that. One of the reasons Vista failed was that it was NOT on time. And one of the reasons Win7 has such a good name even BEFORE it is released to the broad public is that it will be on time. People just connect the notion of discipline to the notion of success.
Disagree.Vista failed because it was NOT its time. Vista was a 1gb-ram OS which appeared when the users in their homes just had(as maximun) 1 GB Ram in the PCs(and 512 MB in Laptops). Manufacturers had to prepare "Vista Capables" PCs/Laptops.You cant be sucessful in that way(==without having PCs able to run your OS in the home of your users).
Now the market is full of PCs/Laptops of 2 GB Ram(at least and thanks to the boost created by Vista),this means that the market is ready so it is its time. 7 eats same quantity of memory than Vista(one of the most criticized things) and noone is going to realize.
Aeneas wrote: Having a free OS on which you cannot rely is like having a car that will take you for free to work ... but it may come or may not come. Or like living in a flat for free... but being able to be thrown out at any moment. It is like an invitation to a free lunch that may or may not happen today.
Disagree. ReactOS is betting hard. Ubuntu just release each 6 months(if i recall correctly), ReactOS tries to release each 2 months. If you can wait 6 months for a new Ubuntu version, why you cant wait 6 months for (2-3) ReactOS versions?It´s much more harder to have a release each 2 months than each 6 months.Btw, does Ubuntu say when it is going to be released?and if so, do they release when promised?and if so, did you realize Ubuntu is supported by a Company called Canonical while ReactOS doesnt have any big money support?. Your sentences seems demagogy, "It´s not an invitation to a free lunch that may or may not happen" neither a "a car which may or not may come". ReactOS releases "comes" and "happens" maybe not in 2 months but in 2-3 months.But happens.
Aeneas wrote: there is STILL written that it may come out in September!
Disagree. Not IN, but SINCE(EARLIEST).In other words, dont expect it before September, but during September (or later).
Aeneas wrote: I will not remove Win7 just because ReactOS comes out, surprisingly, at some unknown point in the future, maybe tomorrow, maybe in next June. I think that is not the optimum solution for ReactOS, either. If I knew WHEN it will come out, I could plan. But now I cannot. Just like many other people cannot make their plans.
Disagree. Instead waiting you can help.If you dont help it doesnt move faster.Btw, we have daily builds.You can test them and install them and try them.We release daily builds to the public for those guys who needs NOW NOW NOW ReactOS. Usually this NOW NOW NOW users are the ones who doesnt help at all. I am not going to change my 7 neither.ReactOS is in Alpha stage.If you need a workable OS i recomend you XP.
Aeneas wrote: they did not give a damn about the users that would be their later developers, and Linux is right now beating them hands down.
Disagree. I cant see the future, neither next week.Until now i think our users has been answered quite fast and we have tried to help as much in our hands.Of course we are sometimes tired of answering again and again the same questions, but we still do.We are rude just with those who doesnt use the Search button.So now we are giving more than a damn about the users, so ReactOS wont become as BSD community. Just keep with us and look how alive is this Forum while ReactOS is just halfusable.

Aeneas wrote: Now before there comes the reflex of criticism, please consider the following sentence, how true it is: "ReactOS, due to its transparancy, good financial management, clear progress and often and regular releases is permanently attracting users and developers and thus proceeding with great steps towards being an open source operating system that is a reliable alternative to Windows; its current status and organisation makes all involved parties proud to be part of it and enables them to contribute according to their best efforts." That sentence is surely quite true... but not "very" true, only "quite" true.
Disagree. Transparency=(look our SVN repository)very sure.Good financial=(we dont have money so..) very sure. Clear progress=(test 0.3.7 and tell me) very sure. Often and regular=(each 2-3 months+ daily builds) very sure.
Aeneas wrote: And please remove that "September". Just say 0.3.11 is on the way. "September" is actually embarassing - it is like a measurement of failure to be on time.
NO.(as Lone would say)September is the "earliest projected release" not the "projected release".
And who knows if maybe next one is going to be called 0.3.12..jumping .11.
Image

Black_Fox
Posts: 1584
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:44 pm
Location: Czechia

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by Black_Fox » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:59 pm

I hereby propose to change
"The next release will be 0.3.11, with an earliest projected release date being September, 2009."
into
"The next release will be 0.3.11, which will be released on September, 2009, or later."

DukeNukemCZ
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:01 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by DukeNukemCZ » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:46 pm

i must agree with Aeneas at least pay more attention for mainpage planned releases.

It will not take much time to change release date if one week after deadline still dont comes out new release.

there is no needed to trying make millions judged reasons why was not done.

cmoibenlepro
Posts: 483
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:44 pm
Location: Canada

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by cmoibenlepro » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:41 pm

Why not just removing the note on the main page? These kind of endless/useless discussions would stop?

Or put an further date (e.g. November)? Maybe 2 months is not enough... Maybe 4 months would be more realistic and people would stop whining.
:?

hto
Developer
Posts: 2193
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:43 pm

Post by hto » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:50 pm

It should be more easy to edit the front page once a month then to repeat the same thing on the forum again and again and again. Also, I agree that "or later" would be better.

Black_Fox
Posts: 1584
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:44 pm
Location: Czechia

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by Black_Fox » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:14 pm

Or posting just year without the month :mrgreen:

fred02
Posts: 551
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:54 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by fred02 » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:18 am

Black_Fox wrote:Or posting just year without the month :mrgreen:
Nah. "When it's ready". :twisted:

EmuandCo
Developer
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:52 pm
Location: Germany, Bavaria, Steinfeld
Contact:

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by EmuandCo » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:15 pm

These "When will Version 0.foo.bar be released finally, you useless pricks!?" topics start TO PISS ME ON!
I will ask the Web Team to remove all projected dates and write "When its done" instead!
ReactOS is fucking Alpha State. Any time there can be a really well hidden regression no one finds in time and viola. +4 weeks wait time.
And if once more someone dares to say that our dev team is badly organized, i will personally shoot him to the moon, understood??! Especially these who don't even know that C is more than the 3rd letter in the Alphabet and have no clue what a big task this is!

Deadline, PAH! We make these so called deadlines just for you out there because you seem to be unable to load a daily build. If you wanna see the recent state, then PLEEEASE load these! We always loose more than a week of coding time just for your releases, time we really could need on some other places.

I propose the Haiku Releases Ideology. NO Official releases at all, just dailies and everyone is served.
Additionally i will close all types of Topics like this from now on. Its done when its done. If you want more information, join #reactos on freenode.

GOD THIS FELT GOOD! :twisted:
Image
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

Smiley
Developer
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 pm

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by Smiley » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:21 pm

EmuandCo wrote: Additionally i will close all types of Topics like this from now on. Its done when its done. If you want more information, join #reactos on freenode.
+1

hto
Developer
Posts: 2193
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:43 pm

Post by hto » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:35 pm

EmuandCo wrote: We always loose more than a week of coding time just for your releases, time we really could need on some other places.
I think that the release procedure is too heavyweight. Take a trunk build and declare it a release. :)

EmuandCo
Developer
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:52 pm
Location: Germany, Bavaria, Steinfeld
Contact:

Re:

Post by EmuandCo » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:03 pm

hto wrote:
EmuandCo wrote: We always loose more than a week of coding time just for your releases, time we really could need on some other places.
I think that the release procedure is too heavyweight. Take a trunk build and declare it a release. :)
Which would result in even more "BOOOHOOOOHOO, you all suck. Version 0.you.suck is soo unstable, GET LOST!" Wanna bet ? :-P
Image
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

Angelus
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:26 pm
Location: Spain

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by Angelus » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:45 pm

Threads like this one answers me to the question "Why do so few developers come and write into the forums?".

EmuandCo
Developer
Posts: 4282
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:52 pm
Location: Germany, Bavaria, Steinfeld
Contact:

Re: It's 5th 10.2009. Where's 0.4.2?

Post by EmuandCo » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:48 pm

Yeah, you got it. Most don't come here because they don't wanna mess with all that here. (That's the reason why none kicked my butt for my post yet btw ;-) )
Image
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DotBot [Crawler] and 3 guests