0.3.11 September

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nute
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Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by nute »

Well, the last source build I did Firefox 2 appears to be working flawlessly. It's hard to tell though because networking is so spotty.
What I noticed though is that the scrolling bug seems to be gone.

Firefox 3 is another story unfortunately. Firefox 3 isn't rendering properly with the text squished and squeezed across the screen
left to right and top to bottom. I'm guessing that Firefox 3 uses a different part of the Windows API then Firefox 2?

Point is, there is progress and the main ReactOS web site has been updated to say October but it's unclear still what 0.3.11
will mean let alone when it will be released as 0.3.11 and when 0.3.12 or 0.4.0 will follow.

It would be a lot clearer where things stand if the roadmap had this information. Right now, the roadmap is pretty limited on
details and current status is completely absent. I think status information falls under documentation where a better
documented project is more likely to get adopted by people than a poorly or undocumented project. If the developers even
once a week would put their take on the roadmap into it, it would be more informative. The roadmap could be a place where
developers comment on their goals whether those goals target the current release candidate or future release candidates.
Z89's newsletter gives some information, but I get the impression that Z89 doesn't actively code for the project
and so I wonder how he gets better access to the developers than every other person who could report on this project?

The newsletters are of variable length which is unfortunate from a journalistic point of view as I'm certain there is enough information
at any given time to write a full page of news. The short nature of even the last newsletter seems to suggest that development
has slowed, which I gather is not true. The profile of the ReactOS project right now seems low because the documentation is less
than stellar. At least the earliest projection for 0.3.11 was updated. If ReactOS was dropped from the google summer of code,
then that is sad. The project community should be able to raise the profile of ReactOS though without google. I don't think the lack
of an official google endorsement is the major problem for ReactOS right now.

One area where improvement is needed is this idea that you can point people to MSDN to learn about ReactOS. Why should I
care about ReactOS which is NOT Microsoft's project despite getting told to go to Microsoft to learn about it? The relevant
MSDN information should be on this web site.

There ought to be a push in the ReactOS community to improve this web site and for this web site to be all it should be it is
going to take participation from the developers.

hto
Developer
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Post by hto »

Somebody should volunteer for that job… If developers would do it, less time they would have for other things…

Z98
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Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by Z98 »

If we were to have all the "relevant MSDN information" we'd effectively have to mirror 90%+ of the entire MSDN site. Why do that when MS is already hosting all that information?

nute
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:30 am

Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by nute »

Well, Microsoft at any time can decide to change the information it has on the web about Windows NT in general which could effectively impact
this project in a very negative way. To Microsoft, ReactOS is a competitor where Microsoft has a history of brutally and mercilessly crushing
competitors through any and all means. Removing information from the web about the internals of NT and Windows in general is a simple way
to thwart a competitor. Another possibility is that Microsoft will start charging people who want to see the information.

It may not be prudent to host the information separately from Microsoft today, but a time will likely come when a 3rd party source is needed.
In the meantime, producing an offline archive of the relevant information on MSDN would be wise. Republishing the information in a form that
is slightly different and relevant to ReactOS might also be wise so that Microsoft can't go after the third party.

If ReactOS is based on information that is not freely available to people, that is going to pose a potential problem. It will definitely make ReactOS
less popular if this is the case.

greenie
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Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by greenie »

The only benefit I can see of reproducing the entire msdn is we can document undocumented behavior and maybe tick what is done in reactos. Though msdn is HUGE. Plus wine covers a lot of stuff and will mostly be doing 99% of work in those areas. Also there are books written on windows internals with probably allot of this stuff covered.
Also changing documentation on msdn will hurt developers of drivers and apps. Any further internal structure is really irrelevant. because when someone installs a driver it asks for x,y,z. if we have implemented x,y,z with the same documentation they have it will work. It doesn't matter if we havn't implemented a,b, and c which has no documentation because no drivers know or call those functions.

Z98
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Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by Z98 »

MSDN until recently had almost nothing about actual architecture that wasn't already widely available elsewhere. We direct people to it because it lists public APIs/interfaces, not so that they can learn about "internals." And as greenie pointed out, MS can't randomly change that without screwing all the third party developers that target Windows. For anything remotely close to "internals" you need to refer to the WDK, which I'm not sure if that's even on MSDN, or several books. The developers are writing out what they know on the techwiki but that's going to take time since they need to present the information in a readable fashion.

dark
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:40 pm

Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by dark »

I had a minor point (updating the main page) and a major point about how long it will realistically be when 0.3.11 comes out. It seems as though the 2 month release cycle has been trashed since it isn't accurately reflecting progress and ROS isn't going to change the version scheme to something like Release_10-30-2009. My prediction is still that the wanted features for 0.3.11 wont be ready until some months into 2010.

Lone_Rifle
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Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by Lone_Rifle »

nute wrote:Well, Microsoft at any time can decide to change the information it has on the web about Windows NT in general which could effectively impact this project
And deny the 3rd party developers who depend on MSDN for winapi documentation. Smart.
nute wrote: To Microsoft, ReactOS is a competitor where Microsoft has a history of brutally and mercilessly crushing
No. Weasel words. Rephrase or die.

Lone_Rifle
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Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by Lone_Rifle »

dark wrote:It seems as though the 2 month release cycle has been trashed
We never had one.

dark
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:40 pm

Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by dark »

Lone_Rifle wrote:
dark wrote:It seems as though the 2 month release cycle has been trashed
We never had one.
Where have you been? http://www.reactos.org/en/news_page_40.html It's been done since 0.3.4 apparently, it usually ended up being 3 months though, still that was the plan.

Haos
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Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by Haos »

Currently the plan is 1 month release cycle, so what?

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EmuandCo
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Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by EmuandCo »

dark wrote:
Lone_Rifle wrote:
dark wrote:It seems as though the 2 month release cycle has been trashed
We never had one.
Where have you been? http://www.reactos.org/en/news_page_40.html It's been done since 0.3.4 apparently, it usually ended up being 3 months though, still that was the plan.
Lone_Rifle. He is right, we have a theoretical cycle of 2 months. But static release cycles are difficult in the recent stage of development. There can always be happening regressions and stuff, so this is standard taking a bit longer than previously said.
ReactOS is still in alpha stage, meaning it is not feature-complete and is recommended only for evaluation and testing purposes

aicommander
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Re: 0.3.11 September

Post by aicommander »

nute wrote:Well, the last source build I did Firefox 2 appears to be working flawlessly. It's hard to tell though because networking is so spotty.
You are probably experiencing bug 3634 (which isn't actually a networking bug) and also bug 4930 (refreshing the page a couple of times will fix the problem). From a stability and compatibility perspective, networking in trunk is much better than 0.3.10 was. Once bug 4930 is fixed and the new winsock rewrite is in place, many more networking apps will work.
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