reactx ...

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Haos
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Re: reactx ...

Post by Haos »

Simple solution is to find more developers or promote ReactOS in different ways, for example if you are student then promote ReactOS every way you can imagine.
Wow... could you be more specific?

zydon
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Re: reactx ...

Post by zydon »

This is simply a pure rant from me. I hope nobody get offended. Since ReactX hasn't started on anything, I guess it's okay to discuss or guessing the ReactX might be deployed. If anyone has better inputs to add or just to dismiss my rant with more realistic ideas or methods, just budge in. I'm okay with it. Anything being discussed from this point and forward not necessarily being taken as an idea, request or even a suggestion. It just to make people like me get better understanding of ROS architecture.

I guessing the possibility of the future ReactX is another Mesa type of OpenGL implementation which is driven by GDI engine. Not sure whether ReactX will require input from Mesa OGL DLL, I think it will not. Just identical methods how it calling the GDI engine methods.

Why I think of this?

It simply given ROS less redundancy in keeping it light ion it's size and it's CPU uses. Any improvement on GDI engine will simultaneously improve both Mesa GL and ReactX. As far as I'm understand about NT architecture at the moment, the OS taking care the process of transaction between GDI and display device through HAL. So, either hardware or software rendering needs, we can say it's being triggered from inside the GDI engine.

Probably, at the moment Mesa GL only capable render with software mode. So, should be the same to ReactX if it were exists now. When comes to hardware rendering needs, ReactX or MesaGL requesting drawing functions with hardware optimization from GDI engine. It is exists such functions in GDI? I don't know. May be someone could explain to me if there is such a thing inside the GDI or need to added. I hope it exists or at least in GDI+ API.

What triggered me was the DXGL engine which is using OpenGL to replace the DIrect3D8. So, I'm thinking, instead of using OpenGL, why not directly use GDI engine? Or may we call it DXGDI? Since Mesa show how to build the GL drawing from GDI, DXGL have show how to build D3D from OGL. So, take out the OGL, directly bridge to GDI.

What say you?

preston
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Re: reactx ...

Post by preston »

zydon... read something more about dx. right now we are using wined3d which is a dx wrapper around opengl. with hw accelerated opengl support it's pretty fast and reliable. directx over gdi would be incredibly slow, unusable.. and it's - you know - the whole purpose of directx to have direct access to the video memory. just try to run any game with mesa (software opengl renderer) and you will see. if reactx is ever going to be finished it will be MS compatible - both the runtime and the kernel mode drivers.

btw the few parts of reactx that are implemented are not used at all anyway at the moment

Z98
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Re: reactx ...

Post by Z98 »

Your, interpretation of what DX is and what RX is intended to be is, off. ReactX is not meant to be like Mesa, it is meant to behave exactly like DirectX, acting as an interface for hardware accelerated functionality provided by drivers and offering a fallback in case of older cards and the like.

zydon
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Re: reactx ...

Post by zydon »

Now I get it. Its like another OS inside an OS that take over completely the graphics device. It is a bit tricky to understand how the OS managed to blend the DX with GUI in window mode. Anyway, at least now I get the idea what happened behind the scene for fullscreen mode.

In that case, the closest place to look for an example were SDL and Allegro. Is that right? Or even back to some old DOS game creation which is directly access to video memory. Probably some small demo sites could provide me an examples how the thing works and written.

Any other places where I can get some more examples?

GoBusto
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Re: reactx ...

Post by GoBusto »

zydon wrote:Now I get it. Its like another OS inside an OS that take over completely the graphics device. It is a bit tricky to understand how the OS managed to blend the DX with GUI in window mode. Anyway, at least now I get the idea what happened behind the scene for fullscreen mode.

In that case, the closest place to look for an example were SDL and Allegro. Is that right? Or even back to some old DOS game creation which is directly access to video memory. Probably some small demo sites could provide me an examples how the thing works and written.

Any other places where I can get some more examples?
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but I can tell you that SDL on Windows is built on top of DirectX.

Z98
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Re: reactx ...

Post by Z98 »

I'm going to try to provide a basic explanation about what DirectX is, without hopefully oversimplifying it to the point of being erroneous, because the assumptions you're making are only going to confuse other people. DirectX, or Direct3D, which is what most people here are talking about, is a set of functions that provide hardware accelerated drawing of 3D objects. They do this by interfacing with win32k, which then further interfaces with drivers provided by video card manufacturers. The trick here is building our own interface that correctly deals with DirectX drivers, which is not easy considering the way that interfacing happens is a complete black box. While MS has released some information and I know Magnus is sitting on quite a cache of info, the rest of us don't have enough to continue his work very easily. As such, there are no "examples" to really look at, since the only open source implementation you could get your hands on would be from ROS, and we haven't done it yet.

zydon
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Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:03 am

Re: reactx ...

Post by zydon »

I'm sorry if I'm lead to the confusion about DirectX. DirectX itself is a confusing architecture and always changing their structure from one windows platform to the next. The old DirectX API was side-by-side with GDI. When hardware emulation is required by software it use HEL and then through DDI. While hardware acceleration directly interfaced to the display device.

On XP platform, each GDI and DX interface had to go through separate WDM for display device. But after Vista, the DirectX interface was very much different which is GDI, native 3D and D3D had to go through DX API interface before connected to the same WDDM for the display device. DDI, WDM and WDDM considered the same interface connecting to display device on different windows platform (Win9x, WinNT/XP and Vista).

I'm not sure on which type of architecture RX will be started for it's base. So, I assumed the later. Unless RX developer still considered supporting old type of DX structure such as on Win9x or WinXP platform.

One thing for sure there is no direct example to see the main entrance of DX interface because it was one of it kind. The least of example I've ask for is direct display device access example by other open source graphics application which is didn't use DX or GL interface. May something could be learn from there...

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