Different distros of ReactOS?

Here you can discuss ReactOS related topics.

Moderator: Moderator Team

Haos
Test Team
Posts: 2954
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:42 am
Contact:

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Haos »

Working for Google? I dont mind:>
vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by vicmarcal »

Maybe Yahoo...Google doesnt like us too much :) ( i still remember that GSOC...)
Ged
Developer
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: UK

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Ged »

Lone_Rifle wrote:so what if ROS dies?
That's a rather insulting view.
When you've been with the project for a long as some of us have, it means a great deal.
You're new here, you don't have the same personal attachment some of us old timers have.

Imagine you spend 10 years building a racing car, then when you're close to finishing it someone else takes it off you and starts winning all the races.
Would you still be saying 'so what' ??
Ged
Developer
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: UK

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Ged »

vicmarcal wrote:
Ged wrote: The foundation has absolutely no control over this.
Why not?There are more ways of controlling that just Closed Source.If ReactOS Foundation gives Quality Logos to some Distros and not to others, if ReacOS Foundation links thoseCertificated Distros in our MainPage...that is a way of possitive discrimination. How a Distro can obtain the Quality Logo?Just if it follows some easy rules. And rules are a way of controlling.
Im not inventing anything, this is the way of working of the Certification Enterprises.
As an Extra: Certification can be Free for community and Fee for Enterprises.The Fee will help to develop ReactOS project too.
This is a way of controlling in the FOSS Market.
You're assuming distros will care about quality logos. We don't have the power or brand to hand out such things.
Back to the google example, they wouldn't give a toss about whether we gave them a quality logo. We would be insignificant and could be brushed aside as if we never existed.
vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by vicmarcal »

Ged wrote: You're assuming distros will care about quality logos. We don't have the power or brand to hand out such things.
Back to the google example, they wouldn't give a toss about whether we gave them a quality logo. We would be insignificant and could be brushed aside as if we never existed.
ReactOS has the power of brand of being the project that has made the first NT clone. In the same way as Linux (and Linux Foundation). Or do you think that Linux Foundation doesnt have any kind of power of brand nowadays?Is it brushed away?
Well, talking about Google, they would be the first who will pay for any kind of Logo.As any other company.Why? Because it would be a shame if people begins complaining about the shame of "stealing" code and not giving any kind of recognition(which also violates GPL rules).The way of silence any complainers is the same always: Buying the Code(or Buying the silence: Hiring the Project Developers). And this isnt just the way of work of Google,also Microsoft.
Companies,in general, are the first of taking stupid ISO Logos to glue everywhere in their products.

Btw, im agree with Ged about the GPL licence, it doesnt cover last-minute companies which comes in the last-minute and make profit of it.
That is why i love the CopyLeft licence instead the GPL one.With the "Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike Licence":
You are free:

* to Share — to copy, distribute and transmit the work
* to Remix — to adapt the work

Under the following conditions:

*Attribution — You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor (but not in any way that suggests that they endorse you or your use of the work).
*Noncommercial — You may not use this work for commercial purposes.
*Share Alike — If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one.

And if any Company wants to sell ReactOS product derivative must contact with ReactOS and reach an agreement with ReactOS Foundation.
hto
Developer
Posts: 2193
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:43 pm

Post by hto »

vicmarcal wrote: That is why i love the CopyLeft licence instead the GPL one.
GPL is a copyleft license. Copyleft ≡ Share Alike.
And if any Company wants to sell ReactOS product derivative must contact with ReactOS and reach an agreement with ReactOS Foundation.
Creative Commons BY-NC-SA license is intended for artistic works, created by a single author or a small group of authors. It is not for software with many contributors (they all should be asked for an agreement), unless ReactOS Foundation consolidates all copyrights (like FSF does for their main projects).
vicmarcal
Test Team
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Re:

Post by vicmarcal »

GPL is a copyleft license. Copyleft ≡ Share Alike.[/quote]
True, it was obviously a typo, i was trying to say Creative Commons and not CopyLeft(which includes GPL) :)
hto wrote: Creative Commons BY-NC-SA license is intended for artistic works, created by a single author or a small group of authors. It is not for software with many contributors (they all should be asked for an agreement), unless ReactOS Foundation consolidates all copyrights (like FSF does for their main projects).
Sure, in the Creative Commons(CC) FAQs they suggest to not use a CC licence for software.I was talking about CC since some of my artistic works (Musicals,Theater plays and such) are CCed.Im sure there are other licences made specifically for software which arent as open as GPL. Open not in the meaning of closed source,but which prevents lastminute companies, which will use ReactOS software without any kind of obligations.
I dont mind if people use our Open code,but having profit without helping in any way(developers,money,or free beer) seems to be too much kindly from our side.
RaptorEmperor
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, United States

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by RaptorEmperor »

Ged wrote:
vicmarcal wrote: Here is where the ReactOS Foundation has to have somekind of control. Im not saying stopping distros to be done,but just writing somekind of rules about the Distros to be considered official:
The foundation has absolutely no control over this.
The GPL allows anyone to fork the project and rename it, no questions asked.
There is then direct competition between 2 code bases. The one with more money to throw into advertising and developer funding will ultimately win the battle and become the dominant project.

Let's say for example that Google decided to make a distro. They would obviously want their own copy of the code to modify to suit their distro, so they copy the ros codebase and start to work on it. It then gets marketed as 'GoogleOS' the world finds out about how cool it is and starts using it.
We can merge all the google changes back into reactos, but they now ultimatley lead the development cycle and have the publics attention.
ReactOS is now dead....

Ok, a bit extreme, but this is potentially what could happen.
I should have taken that into account, and I'm surprised it didn't pop into my mind. I wouldn't say it's completely extreme, considering the other crazy stuff that's happened with open-source - I still remember when the whole SCO thing was news. Sun keeps most of the advanced features of VirtualBox closed source, even though the core of it is GPL, and the idea of binary blobs everywhere in ReactOS scares me too.

The problem is, what can we do to prevent this scenario from happening without ditching the GPL, and, thus, the whole point of ReactOS? If we try to prevent people from making distros, we'll come under fire from open-source advocates, and justly so. ReactOS is publicly available code, so it's the public's right to make distros if they want.

Another thing that concerns me is the effect discouraging distros could have on development. One of the advantages of ReactOS distros is that they would show off the capabilities of software in ways ReactOS itself doesn't, such as eye candy. If it still looks like Windows 98 in 2012, young people just getting into software development might think it's too antiquated to be worth the time. Distros could fill this gap by showing what ReactOS is capable of, and drawing them into mainstream ReactOS development.

(Wow. I just realized that 2012 is only three years away. Windows 98 will be 14 years old. I remember using Windows 98, therefore I'm getting old. *Shudder*)

I know I'll get hounded for proposing this idea, but perhaps we could marginalize the effects of distros by making variants of ReactOS ourselves. Windows has Home, Business, Server, Embedded, Basic, and other variants of its operating system, and diversifying ReactOS as such could draw away some of the motivation for forking the project. ReactOS as it is now would be ReactOS Core, and then you could have ReactOS Home, ReactOS Business, and such with different preinstalled programs at install to meet user's needs. I understand the desire to keep ReactOS small and avoid bloat, but at the same time ReactOS shouldn't be allowed to die because of fear of bloat. Computer types don't enjoy tons of preloaded apps, but in reality most versions of Windows never suffered poor sales because of it. You could kill the desire for more options (via distros) by giving users more options than they need (in ReactOS). I'm not saying it's the best option (I prefer keeping it lightweight by default), but we shouldn't rule it out entirely. Pragmatism rules above all.

It's not fate for a open-source project to wind up in the kind of scattered distro mess that Linux is in, or to be undermined by a large corporation. Probably the most sure strategy to keep ReactOS at the forefront is publicity. Firefox has intelligent, well-coordinated marketing, so even casual computer users know what Firefox is. People have forked Firefox but to this day most people don't know what IceWeasel, Camino, or Flock are because Firefox has name recognition the other folks don't have. Hopefully when we hit beta computer news outlets will start noticing, more developers and donations will come in, we can create more promotional materials (t-shirts, water bottles, Reacty plush toys, whatever the hell it takes), and it will help cement our position.

If ReactOS were to become a household name, it would be much harder for someone to hijack the project without facing bad publicity. I'm sure Google could have rebranded Firefox and sold it off as its own, but Firefox is so mainstream now that it would have been too risky, so they developed their own software instead for Chrome. While nothing is stopping anyone from taking a GPL project's code and running off without recognizing the work of the developers, it would be much more difficult to do so politically if the project is something people recognize.

At this stage, labeling any distros as "ReactOS Certified" or whatever is pointless, because we lack the name recognition. It might as well be "Z98 Certified" or "Blackcrack Certified". Before ReactOS could have the justification to give out such recognition, ReactOS needs to get recognized itself. Only then would it be an option.
Lone_Rifle
Test Team
Posts: 802
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Lone_Rifle »

Ged wrote:
Lone_Rifle wrote:so what if ROS dies?
That's a rather insulting view.
When you've been with the project for a long as some of us have, it means a great deal.
You're new here, you don't have the same personal attachment some of us old timers have.

Imagine you spend 10 years building a racing car, then when you're close to finishing it someone else takes it off you and starts winning all the races.
Would you still be saying 'so what' ??
Apologies if you take it this way, but while I can empathise with people developing affections for the things they work with for extended periods of time, nothing in this world is ever going to be permanent. And perhaps unsurprisingly, more power to the guy who drives off with my hypothetical car; things happen, I take it as it comes and move on. Sure it may be disappointing that I don't get due credit, but credit is meaningless in the sense that it is merely a temporary joy and does little to develop human character.

For that matter, I will even be glad that somebody saw the potential in the car I built and is now winning races, or whatever it is that makes him happy, since he's happy, and making his fans happy, etc. So long as he isn't using it in a series of hit-and-run accident-related pedestrian deaths.

I am aware that these views could be viewed as extreme, or even bizarre, but when working on projects with goals set well into the very long term, one has to look beyond the personal gains or affections that one will have for the project, and perhaps see the kind of influence the project could have on the community at large, even when one no longer has control over a project.
jcalvarez
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:41 am

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by jcalvarez »

Hi,

I believe the potential problem with ReactOS distros is way smaller than in Linux. The main difference is that Linux is just a kernel, it cannot do anything without all the environment that includes different GUIs etc. In this matter RIOS is closer to a complete system, you get a GUI and other components that are not optional or changeable, so it would require much more work to do something basically different than an "official" ROS build.

Regards,

Jose
GreyGhost
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:16 pm

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by GreyGhost »

As for competition ..
wat can be done is a group of ReactOS (as in the barebone ReactOS Foundation version) can put out a just for the sake of it distro (yep "unofficial").. n drag ppl away from other competing distros ..
This group should work pretty closely with the core devs .. not go around on random kill the original sprees like most other distros will do ..
Bt the thing bout "stealing" as u might call it is .. that if some big software industry player like Google / Canonical(? Wbuntu the Free Windows like OS :P ) / Novell .. etc comes and takes the code base that has taken generations / years of developemnt by dedicated ROSians .. then they can pretty much try and crush ROS without haveing to do anything .. cos they have lots of fckin $$ ..

So lets just leave it till the time comes to tackle it ..

Still i'm pretty against distros .. bt thanks to lord GPL we cant really help that .. And anyway ..a prsn who loves his windows hates bloat .. a distro from ROS will most prolly be just bloat with an option to not install the bloat .. pretty stupid no? .. :P
Regards GreyGhost
zydon
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:03 am

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by zydon »

ROS Distros variation? I don't think it will going to be happened. Based on what users had done so far with ROS releases, it will never happened.

What ROS community need is not different distros. Instead, a different application suite which is bunch of applications can be installed at once with options. Since ROS releases download is quite small, a variation of application suite addons is wise choice for different group of users such as businesses, gamers, portables, developers and/or students flavors.

Thats the only way to go so ROS does not fall into the fate as Linux. Once the OS core started to be included into the a different distros, the compatibility problem going to be raising even more. Lets the ROS developer do what they do best. Getting the core OS gaining it's stability. While application suite developer worry about the compatibility of their packages between ROS releases.

Just my 2 cents.
unofficialforum
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:31 pm

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by unofficialforum »

at the end of the day, you cannot make an os for everyone. not even if you base it on the os "everyone" uses. for this reason people would (and some do) make their own "windows distros" and deploy them, legally, in the few ways and circumstances in which it's possible. with ros it will be much more possible, and more common.

granted there are good reasons for some linux distros, as there will be for ros- but some linux distros are just... wallpaper. (eh.) maybe most ros distros will be pointless. what won't happen though, is distros won't inspire ros the way linux distros inspire the brands they're based on.

even as microsoft finds new ways to (try to) entice people, ros will always go out of its way to be straight-laced, vanilla, and completely basic. this guarantees distros for people that want something fun "out of the box."

if ros went the other way and tried to be fun, that would ensure people would try to package different kinds of fun distros- and also it would ensure that someone would make a boring straight-laced vanilla version.
anyedge
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:17 am

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by anyedge »

I understand why there are different distros for GNU/Linux. but I feel there are WAY too many floating around out there. I sincerely hope this does not happen to ReactOS. Hopefully the integrated nature of ReactOS will discourage people from making distros when they can instead work on software packages, which I believe would go a lot further in improving ReactOS as a whole. This way, fragmentation is minimalized.
Haos
Test Team
Posts: 2954
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:42 am
Contact:

Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Haos »

Again, i doubt anyone will take more steps in customizing ReactOS, than changing name strings, themes, fonts/icons, perhaps a new UI, plus bundling apps. There are not so many people that could really change something above that.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests