Different distros of ReactOS?

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vicmarcal
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by vicmarcal »

Well..there are 2 differents POV:

1)ReactOS Foundation not encouraging for ReactOS Distros.
2)ReactOS Foundation encouraging the creation of ReactOS Distros.

ReactOS distros,with or without the support of ReactOS Found,are going to appear when ReactOS becomes more stable and more compatible. This is a fact. Right now,D. Bartolini has done one of the first ReactOS distros. There isnt any way to avoid the creation of Distros since ReactOS code is GPL.And the question is: should we encourage or not ReactOS distros?.

Of course nowadays Linux Distros are a big mess, but as pointed before, ReactOS isnt as modular as Linux,and the Distros changes will be focused mainly to GUI or to the Apps included. But if any Distro is supported by a Real skilled team, it would be a nice land of possible ReactOS developers/skilled testers.

In the other hand, ReactOS is now able to run a bunch of nice apps,but not a big bunch,so having Distros which includes these actual working apps will show that ReactOS is nowadays more useful than the users can think.

ReactOS Distros would attract Users,and with them:Developers and Testers. If i have to choose the possibility of an unknown future mess because Distros,or the possibility of attracting Devs and Users...The choice is easy,at least for me.
hto
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Post by hto »

ReactOS Distros would attract Users,and with them:Developers and Testers. If i have to choose the possibility of an unknown future mess because Distros,or the possibility of attracting Devs and Users...The choice is easy,at least for me.
I agree with that...

Moreover, making changes should be as easy as possible:

- to encourage people to play with it,
- to discourage them to make profound / permanent changes.
Haos
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Haos »

I mean real distro`s, heavily modified/customized behind the UI. Bundlin software, changing default wallpaper/theme and rewriting few title strings does not qualify as one.
vicmarcal
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by vicmarcal »

Haos wrote:I mean real distro`s, heavily modified/customized behind the UI. Bundlin software, changing default wallpaper/theme and rewriting few title strings does not qualify as one.
Afaik a lot of the Linux "Distros" are just changing GUI+Chains+Themes.
Z98
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Z98 »

If they were only different GUIs, their packages wouldn't all be incompatible by default.
jimtabor
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by jimtabor »

Let's not be to wine'ish about it.... I do not care if anyone creates and sales a distribution CD... I hope they have a good lawyer that knows something about "Real US Patent Law"! Not that micro-shafted made up stuff they put to the web rags.

Good Luck,
James
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by GreyGhost »

Most prolly the core ReactOS will be basic by ROS Foundation ..
But then there will be distros .. lots most prolly .. and till they stick to GPL nothing wrng ..

But distros cause lots of havoc imo ..
look now .. u have 100s of different linux distros .. why? most prolly cos linux hasnt exactly got as huge a community software base as windows ..

ROS aims to run all windows apps right?
Now a graphics artist will consider preshipped version of GIMP/Inkscape as bloat considering he has his Photoshop/ Illustrator ..

On linux that poor graphics artist wldnt have the choice would he?? so ppl come up with distros ..
By Windws distros u mean the flavours that MS ships? or those illegal stripped down slip streamed versions?
Flavours are for commercial stuff .. different pricing etc .. ROS will not have as many as Vista for sure ..
and slipstremed versions are cos of bloat that windows ships .. ROS will most prolly not have bloat ..

IMO Distros of ROS will be a no go ..
Regards GreyGhost
theuserbl
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by theuserbl »

There alraedy existing ReactOS distributions:

- Easy-To-Use Distro...
- LiveCD distribution competition
for example

The main goal is, to have more included software.

To all people who are against ReactOS-distributions:
Strincly speaking, is every ReactOS version in heavy use, a distribution.

If you install a program in ReactOS, then it's a "distribution".
If you change the wallpaper or anything else, you have created a "distribution".

But not everybody wants to do that changes itself (or have the skill to do it itself).
The reason can be, that the changes are much or hard to do.
So it helps, when other people creating that distributions and you need only to easyly download and install it.

Greatings
theuserbl
user312
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by user312 »

theuserbl wrote:....
To all people who are against ReactOS-distributions:
Strincly speaking, is every ReactOS version in heavy use, a distribution.

If you install a program in ReactOS, then it's a "distribution".
If you change the wallpaper or anything else, you have created a "distribution".
....
Greatings
theuserbl
Uhm, not exactly...a "distribution" implies that it's actually being "distributed" to others to use (hence the term...). If I change the desktop on my install of ReactOS and don't distribute it to anyone I certainly wouldn't qualify as a "distribution" since I would be the only person in possession of it and it wouldn't be available to anyone else to use (i.e. it isn't being "distributed"). This would simply qualify as a minor personal modification of the base distribution. Of course, I may just be misunderstanding what you're trying to say...
RaptorEmperor
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by RaptorEmperor »

ReactOS is GPL code, so it's pretty much an assumed fact that people will create distros of it. Personally, I'm not against distros as long as they don't break compatibility. If it's something like changing the appearance or having more programs installed at default, I don't care. (I'll probably theme ReactOS myself when it's supported.) I do start to care when people start making distros that aren't intercompatible with one another.
Ged wrote:
vicmarcal wrote:Well..I think some of the popularity of Linux came thanks to Distros.
One of the reasons for the failure of Linux on the desktop is due to distros.
ros distros should be discouraged at all costs, we don't want the same mess that the linux community has.

The concept of distros didn't kill Linux. The lack of intercompatibility between distros kiled Linux. The lack of any single distribution as the "core" Linux killed Linux. You can't tell someone that they should try plain old "Linux", you have to choose between Ubuntu Linux, Red Hat Linux, Damn Small Linux, Puppy Linux, Debian Linux, Your Momma Linux, or whatever else kind of Linux pops up. This confuses users to begin with, and when they find out that these distros don't even run the same software, it just pisses them off.

Fortunately for us, as long as there's ReactOS to serve as the "core" of this emerging family of FOSS NT-like operating systems, we will be able to say "Try ReactOS" and there won't be an issue as to which ReactOS we're talking about. Even after distros pop up ReactOS can be the standard, the lowest common denominator, against which its derivative distros will be judged. We have the advantage of being more centralized, which Linux doesn't. The necessity for a basic ReactOS to serve as this standard is why I agree with the developers to keep ReactOS as small and lightweight as possible. It looks boring as hell to me, too, but if it splits off into one direction or another it won't be able to serve as the most basic member of this new family of operating systems. ReactOS = Windows compatibility, and nothing else matters. Fancy GUIs, prepackaged software, and all the extra goodies can come from somewhere else.

The irony is that we can thank Microsoft for this. Since we're cloning a mature desktop platform, there's less flexibility to go one way or the other with the project. Half of Linux's intercompatibility issues are because of differing graphical managers, which is because UNIX had no native graphical manager of its own.

Probably the greatest threat to ReactOS regarding distros breaking intercompatibility is different developers targeting different Windows platforms (e.g. Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Vista). Just as long as the developers of distros are responsible and advertise which platform their targeting, this shouldn't be a major issue. It still makes me nervous, though.

This is my own opinion. Feel free to correct me if I made an error in my assessment.
Ged
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Ged »

RaptorEmperor wrote:
Fortunately for us, as long as there's ReactOS to serve as the "core" of this emerging family of FOSS NT-like operating systems, we will be able to say "Try ReactOS" and there won't be an issue as to which ReactOS we're talking about.
This is where a potential problem arises.
Competition means people want to be at the core of the market and lead the pack. I'm pretty sure that if ros becomes mainstream companies will pick it up and try to run away with it. There'll then be a whole host of distros in competiion with each other. Here's your potential for the linux chaos we have now.

As long as we can hold the main development then we'll be fine, but you see forking and competition even with relatively unpopular operating systems like BSD. Are we really going to be able to hold off the competition to control things ???
vicmarcal
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by vicmarcal »

Ged wrote:As long as we can hold the main development then we'll be fine, but you see forking and competition even with relatively unpopular operating systems like BSD. Are we really going to be able to hold off the competition to control things ???.
Here is where the ReactOS Foundation has to have somekind of control. Im not saying stopping distros to be done,but just writing somekind of rules about the Distros to be considered official: an Official Logo given by the ReactOS Foundation after testing the Distro(Quality certification), a changelog of the Distro vs the ReactOS release, etc..

One big advantage that ReactOS has (and Linux doesnt) is that we are limited and that we have just one objective: Any ReactOS distro must be compatible with Win32 apps(at least). So i cant see how a Distro can kill its own compatibility.If one Distro wants to create a Posix Subsystem(i.e),well,they are wellcome,and in the same instant ReactOS official release will add that Posix to its source code(if ReactOS Foundation thinks it fits). Thanks to the Changelog ReactOS-Distro we can see the advantages/fixes included and add them to our source code (if they fit). But as i said, i think the Distros main changes will come in the Apps added or in the GUI,but not in the NT architecture itself.
Ged
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Ged »

vicmarcal wrote: Here is where the ReactOS Foundation has to have somekind of control. Im not saying stopping distros to be done,but just writing somekind of rules about the Distros to be considered official:
The foundation has absolutely no control over this.
The GPL allows anyone to fork the project and rename it, no questions asked.
There is then direct competition between 2 code bases. The one with more money to throw into advertising and developer funding will ultimately win the battle and become the dominant project.

Let's say for example that Google decided to make a distro. They would obviously want their own copy of the code to modify to suit their distro, so they copy the ros codebase and start to work on it. It then gets marketed as 'GoogleOS' the world finds out about how cool it is and starts using it.
We can merge all the google changes back into reactos, but they now ultimatley lead the development cycle and have the publics attention.
ReactOS is now dead....

Ok, a bit extreme, but this is potentially what could happen.
Lone_Rifle
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by Lone_Rifle »

so what if ROS dies? I don't remember that KHTML kicked up much of a fuss when KDE decided to switch to WebKit. I really don't see the need to command the lead in this development area and to be at the centre of attention. If some other project decides to run away with our codebase, and as a result end up leading the development effort instead of us, so be it. Time will tell if the decision that project made benefitted the community at large. Besides which, may I point out that the the current dev team is in the process of cleaning out the hacks in ROS and putting in place proper implementations of everything. The fact that nobody is stopping this effort implies that the devs who did put the hacks in in the first place have gone, so arguably, the current dev team has run away with the codebase belonging to the previous dev team.
vicmarcal
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Re: Different distros of ReactOS?

Post by vicmarcal »

Ged wrote:
vicmarcal wrote: Here is where the ReactOS Foundation has to have somekind of control. Im not saying stopping distros to be done,but just writing somekind of rules about the Distros to be considered official:
The foundation has absolutely no control over this.
Why not?There are more ways of controlling that just Closed Source.If ReactOS Foundation gives Quality Logos to some Distros and not to others, if ReacOS Foundation links thoseCertificated Distros in our MainPage...that is a way of possitive discrimination. How a Distro can obtain the Quality Logo?Just if it follows some easy rules. And rules are a way of controlling.
Im not inventing anything, this is the way of working of the Certification Enterprises.
As an Extra: Certification can be Free for community and Fee for Enterprises.The Fee will help to develop ReactOS project too.
This is a way of controlling in the FOSS Market.

Ged wrote:Ok, a bit extreme, but this is potentially what could happen.
Well...i love the extremes.. but ;)..Linux Foundation/Project didnt finish and it is one of the most important OS.Companies are supporting Distros(as Ubuntu-Canonical) but it didnt kill other Distros,neither the Foundation.
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