XServer

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Skippy
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Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:33 pm

XServer

Post by Skippy »

I just found out about ReactOS, so maybe I should check a bit better (sth which is a common remark given in this forum), but will ReactOS enable the use of the fancy MacOS and/or XServer desktop visuals? I mean those 3D Virtual Desktops etc? That would be neat, and a reason to keep following and contribute to this new OS.

I know ROS is far from the answer to this question, but you guys must already know by now if it will enable those features.

---------
There are 10 different kind of people in this world, those who can read binary and those who don´'t.[/quote]

GvG
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Post by GvG »

We follow the Windows model for the GUI, meaning the desktop is not X11 based. You can't drop-in e.g. KDE or GNOME.

Blaskowicz
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Post by Blaskowicz »

you will still be able to use shell replacements made for windows, such as Litestep (the most widely known). Just like you can run ROS explorer in windows as the shell ;)

There are 3D desktops being developed for windows, SphereXP is one of them http://www.hamar.sk/sphere/
I'm going to try it, I hope it's not too bugged.

Pentiumforever
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Post by Pentiumforever »

But is it possibel to integrate the GTK and the QT libary in the default CD?

If yes we can use Gaim as the defualt IM (soon it work)

ea
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X/11 over win32k.sys

Post by ea »

GvG wrote:We follow the Windows model for the GUI, meaning the desktop is not X11 based. You can't drop-in e.g. KDE or GNOME.
As GvG pointed out, the ReactOS GUI is not based on the X project design and API, but... given that the low level graphical API is documented (at least documented in the sense that you can read the source code (reactos/subsys/win32k) and understand what happens when you call, from user mode, a function listed in
reactos/tools/nci/w32ksvc.db (which are the only entry points the user mode Win32 graphics APIs use) one could start a project like libW11 http://libw11.sourceforge.net/ that uses the same API and with the same performance as Win32, to obtain a X/11 "server", or, better, a user mode library that'd allow you to compile most X/11 client programs.[/b]

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Jaix
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Ideas about X-server

Post by Jaix »

ReactOS will be windows compatible and work just like that, but there is ideas and possibilities to extend functionality beyond windows, and many things will probably be better then windows in time. One of these things will hopefully be the multiuser environment, just like linux it will be possible for multiple users to connect to a computer at the samte time, this is where some wild ideas takes place. Hopefully there will be a terminal service in ReactOS, this may support many protocolls and client software, like ms rdp, VNC, Telnet and hopefully X-Windows. Not much has been done on the Terminal service yet, but the multiuser environment is being worked on, ones this is done the Terminal service will hopefully start to evolve. Please take a look at the WIKI-idea-page.
Feel free to add ideas of what you need.

mf
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Re: X/11 over win32k.sys

Post by mf »

ea wrote:one could start a project like libW11 http://libw11.sourceforge.net/ that uses the same API and with the same performance as Win32, to obtain a X/11 "server", or, better, a user mode library that'd allow you to compile most X/11 client programs.[/b]
CoLinux, planned to become a subsystem of ReactOS, uses the Cygwin X server to display X windows managed by win32 windowing.

Skippy
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Post by Skippy »

That was indeed more what I was thinking of, the way Cygwin uses X11 on a Windows platform. But apparently it will be implemented in the CoLinux subsystem... great!... and interesting. Thx! I will try to find more about all this, and maybe I might be skilled enough in the future to contribute.

LordMicr0n
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Post by LordMicr0n »

X server is something that no desktop user / gamer would use, it's slower than windows's own Graphic Server becouse of it's network transparency.
since x.org took it over, since then it's a little bit faster, but still it is to slow and the most importaint feature of an OS is the performance
don't buy "windows Longhorn" !
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oiaohm
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Subsystems SubSystems.

Post by oiaohm »

Xserver and Xclient setup sould be supported by Reactos.

This is just a tip of a iceberg. Xserver support lets remote apps from a linux/Unix/Freebsd be displayed on the reactos client.

Also provide a door for more apps.

But higher up the list would be a port of glibc. Reason Microsoft printf and other standard C statement are horiblely out of date.

Glibc and some enulation of /dev and /proc remove the need of a linux kernel. Glibc will let lots of command line tools work without problems.

pthread-win32 exists so all that is require is a Glibc. Over 90 percent of all linux/Unix programs never directly interface with the kernel threw /dev or /proc.

Basicly porting I am thinking about glibc in the core make porting programs simpler and a libc.dll is not going to harm the system.

Bigest problem I have when porting a linux program(just some of my small stuff I mess with)is if the program used a new feature of standard statement or a GNU special. Lots of the GNU specials improve programs and reduce the chance of buffer overflows. GNU sscanf include a mode for strings that allocates the space required so it cannot be overflowed windows version does not. Things like this really hurt when porting but if placed in the standard lib could destroy other programs.

Note this is part of the posix setup because glibc has almost became the standard on all posix systems.

Luemmel
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Post by Luemmel »

LordMicr0n wrote:X server is something that no desktop user / gamer would use...
I don't know any alternative to X for unix/linux desktop user / gamer
do you?

oiaohm
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Hmm let me sort this one out Gamers and Linux

Post by oiaohm »

I am a Gammer and I run linux with X11.

The desktop is basicly disabled when gaming it gives me so much of a speed advantage over my friends they that now duel boot to stay on a fair footing(all of us have the same size machines). A reduced foot print window manager would be a good idea. Drop the desktop background picture leave a menu and the system tray.

X11 normally is horible for gaming its far to slow. It is critical that dri or glx(nvidia still uses this) Extentions are in place to let the game by pass the X11 layor and directly writes to video card in a controled methord control a section of screen features that the video card will use.

Basicly without linux two answers to directX interface games would be in trouble.

Kde use Opengl in there interfaces to get access to the dri or glx to speed up there effects.(this makes it useless for remote use and slow on non opengl cards and effect game peformance)

X11 is great for desktop use I have had up to 100 machines using my machine at the same time. Memory management of linux really kick in. One copy of execute section of program in memory and many copys of the data section. So 10 copies of the same program might only eat the same a 2 times the normal usage.

colinux is going to run into trouble how in heck are they going to solve the glx/dri problem. Note windows running the binary directly with a compad X11 emulator of so that opengl under windows can be used with the interface would match if not better the dri or glx setups.

keow might be a better fix long term. But it needs lots of work since it wraps the linux programs and makes them run directly under windows.

LordMicr0n
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Post by LordMicr0n »

there is so called accelerated X (comercial)
didn't tested it yet.
don't buy "windows Longhorn" !
http://www.againsttcpa.com/

oiaohm
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accelerated X is good for some chips sets but costly.

Post by oiaohm »

Most of the advantages get nuked when you know the causes.

Install Nvidia/Ati drivers (if you have Nvidia or Ati card). Fixs the Opengl problem and the draw speed.
Speed of X.org is about the same with drivers.

Font problem traces to freetype pay apple a small amount to enable freetype better mode this improved font working in every program in the os and is more than worth it.(ie recomplie freetype with use patented methords). Yep installing accelerated X does not always fix the printed out put and is not really worth it. Freetype problems are getting less with newer versions.

X11 is slow due to methord no amount of tweeking will fix that problem ie its setup to let remote draw to screen.

Standard X11 opengl rendering is Opengl 1.5 software at least. Windows only does opengl 1.2 or equal(direct X auto cuts back)for verry good reasons. Poor computers cannot hack software rendering at that level.

Mesa3d cut back version is required and would help alot of users without a good 3d card with linux support.

X.org and Xfree86 does not support all video cards out the box with out tweeking.

Still X11 support is worth it. Lets more apps sooner.

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