Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

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wildschwein
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Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by wildschwein »

Hi there,

I ask me, when would be the point, when ROS is resounded thourouhg the lands. Now, nobody but us Reactos Fans knows something about, but not to far in future there will be a point, that the first computer magazines come across ROS.
Yes, that will be perhaps not until beta status is reached, but I find it very interessting, to thing about before it happens !

Would it be like these days when Linux became generally known in the normally computer-ingenious population ? I mean, if it works fine, it would much faster than Linux interfuse the private computer users, because there is only "one" ROS, not thousand "confusing" kernels and other things, we know from Linux. And if its only "one package" even Joe Public can understand it, download it, and install it. And if he can't he has a neigbour, a friend, a collegue, a son (or a dog *lol*) who can install it, and he will be interested to have ROS, because its FOR FREE, FAST, and SECURE and STABLE (hopefully it will be...)

Rumour has it, that Windows 7 may come out to market in early 2010. Could ROS be there already in Beta-State, so that it should be to 80% compatible ?

In my opinion, there will be a tug through the land, when everybody knows that there is a windows-like OS, that is free and windows compatible, and fast - especally on older hardware.

What will Mircosoft do then in 2010 ? Could it be, that - AGAIN - very few people are interesting in Windows 7 ? This time because ROS is already a good and fast alternative ? Could be ROS the David, and Microsoft is the Goliath ?

Please keep in mind, that we - the ROS fans in the early hours of ROS - are perhaps experience history ! The beginning of the end of Microsoft !

But now back to work - there are a lot of task waiting !

GoBusto
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by GoBusto »

wildschwein wrote:I ask me, when would be the point, when ROS is resounded thourouhg the lands. Now, nobody but us Reactos Fans knows something about, but not to far in future there will be a point, that the first computer magazines come across ROS.
Yes, that will be perhaps not until beta status is reached, but I find it very interessting, to thing about before it happens !
Some articles have already been published.

wildschwein
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by wildschwein »

Yes, but just only a few in a russian Linux magazin.

What if there is an article in Chip, PC-Welt or even in the c't ? And in some other foreign computer magazines ?
Then "the whole world" will gaze on ROS...

What means that there will be more testers, fans, and perhaps some more higly skilled developers.

It's like MP3s in the mid 90ties. Nobody knew MP3, now there are just a few people who didn't heard about MP3 yet.
At that time i enjoyed it, to know things that others don't know yet, and this time it would be the same story with ROS !

Radhad
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by Radhad »

In germany the c't already informs the readers about a new ReactOS version, I have seen it twice and I believe they will do it also in future. Also you can listen to german podcast called pofacs.de which has published a podcast about ReactOS. ReactOS gets more and more known each version gets published ;)

wildschwein
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by wildschwein »

Oh..I didn't know that c't already reported about ROS.

But the "swell current" - in my opion - is not reached yet. As I am a phyisicist, I compare it to a laser-process.

When will ROS reach the "swell current" ? When will the "laser-process" starts ?

Elledan
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by Elledan »

IMO, the thing is mostly that two things are missing in ROS ATM: features and stability. Once ROS has support for USB, DirectX (games!), sound and (full) networking and a crash rate at least on the scale of a Win9x OS, people will be able to use ROS on a daily basis, as well as be a proper replacement for Windows for people who don't want to shell out for a Windows license.

Before this point has been reached usage of ROS will fall under 'hobby' and 'academic'.

With 0.3.8 or .9 ROS should have gained USB support and improved networking support. Stability is still increasing rapidly as well. We gained a new kernel dev recently as well. Perhaps with an improved testing procedure this process could be sped up as well.

ReactOS's own version of DX is under development and will take a while, but once MSFT's DX installs, it'll be perfectly usable (albeit illegal according to the EULA). Sound support is coming along very slowly and definitely needs developers (currently no one is working on it...).

Next year we'll start off with ROS 0.3.8 (Jan/Feb 2009). With more devs and most importantly some real revenue (webshop?), we could reach 0.4 before Q3'09 and a Beta (0.5) release somewhere in 2010. Of course, if we were to double the number of devs... :)

So yes, ROS could pose a threat to Windows 7 by the time it's released, but there's still a lot of work to do.

wildschwein
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by wildschwein »

Thank you for your long answer Elledan,

Linux once also was an OS for "hobby" and "acedemic". I think ROS will got the same way like the development with linux. But with one big advantage. It's easier than Linux, because you can't configurate so much.
No Kernel-"baking" and so long...

So I see it like you. ROS could really be a the stone that brings Microsoft to fall in the next one or two decades.

By the way, if I could better program in C and know more about Kernel programming, I would join the developers team.

So, I can only help with testing. But I prefer to test on REAL Hardware. Already take an old PIII from my cellar and tested if ROS 0.3.7 works with Boot CD. It WORKS ! So I will install ROS now, get a Raeltek 8139 and surf through the net, download and install a lot of software ! Nullmodemcable and an stone-old laptop with serial port is ready, hehehe...."Let the testgames beginn !"

There is lot to do, let's go ! (Like the germans say: "Es gibt viel zu tun, packen wir es an!"

hto
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by hto »

It's easier than Linux, because you can't configurate so much.
No Kernel-"baking" and so long...
Actually, you can bake your very own kernel. :)
So, I can only help with testing.
Then join ReactOS IRC channel to coordinate efforts with other testers.

dawinsor87
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by dawinsor87 »

One of the things that I've noticed as Windows 7 approaches, is that a lot of the early tests are commenting on how much of the kernel code 7 shares with Vista. If Microsoft is going to continue 'beating down the wrong path' so to speak, the timely release of ROS beta along with Microsoft's growing more and more out of touch with its clientele could put a nail in Windows' coffin. Furthermore, with the growing open source movement (of which Firefox would probably be my flagship example along with lots of other excellent software like Open Office.org and VLC) paving the way, an ms-based open source OS seems to be the next logical step.

I certainly hope that when Windows 7 is released that ROS will have something strong enough to counter it. *finger crossed* and all of the best luck to the developers.

Techsalvager
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by Techsalvager »

dawinsor87 wrote:One of the things that I've noticed as Windows 7 approaches, is that a lot of the early tests are commenting on how much of the kernel code 7 shares with Vista. If Microsoft is going to continue 'beating down the wrong path' so to speak, the timely release of ROS beta along with Microsoft's growing more and more out of touch with its clientele could put a nail in Windows' coffin. Furthermore, with the growing open source movement (of which Firefox would probably be my flagship example along with lots of other excellent software like Open Office.org and VLC) paving the way, an ms-based open source OS seems to be the next logical step.

I certainly hope that when Windows 7 is released that ROS will have something strong enough to counter it. *finger crossed* and all of the best luck to the developers.
I serisouly doubt it

Yes windows NT kernel will be used in windows 7 as it was in vista just newer edits and reversions.
I'm not saying I don't want to see reactos develop but I do doubt there will be something big enough to displace windows 7 from reactos by that time.

Reactos would be a good alt for companies that rely on older apps that just do one thing on a box thats not really attached to anything, but they just need that one app to work. Thats something I can see ReactOS being good for soon still theres probably alot of work to be done. As a workstation OS in a corp env I do not see it displacing windows 7 by the time it comes out.

Anything is possible
but thats my take on it

GoBusto
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by GoBusto »

Techsalvager wrote:Reactos would be a good alt for companies that rely on older apps that just do one thing on a box thats not really attached to anything, but they just need that one app to work. Thats something I can see ReactOS being good for soon still theres probably alot of work to be done. As a workstation OS in a corp env I do not see it displacing windows 7 by the time it comes out.
I agree - it depends on what the corporation needs to do.

Say you work in the music industry. You need sound but ReactOS doesn't support it. You therefore have no choice but to either use Windows 7, Get A Mac™ or go through the rather painful process of converting your whole IT system over to some variation of GNU/Linux and then discovering that WINE doesn't yet run your Windows-based audio applications properly.

Say you work in the PC games industry. You'll need something NT-based with the latest in everything - DirectX 10, OpenGL 3, sound support and so forth. Windows 7 is the logical choice - it fully supports all of these, and it's what 99% of your customers will be using. Even if you decide to use ReactOS, you'll need to have Windows 7 as well, in order to check for any compatibility issues due to differences in the way that the two NT systems are implemented.

Say you work as a server administrator. You need something secure, stable, tried and tested. Your server hardware cannot run Server 2008, let alone Server 7. ReactOS is stable-ish, but has no security, and lacks any equivalent to Active Directory. You could either buy new server hardware or decide to give Linux/BSD/Solaris a go - and then discover that you don't actually know how to use UNIX based systems properly. Also, have "fun" getting SAMBA to work when you don't know what you're doing.

However, if you just need a general Windows-like OS for basic workstation use (running Microsoft/Open Office, browsing the web with Firefox) then ReactOS would fit the bill rather well - and, don't forget, there are going to be way more workstations than servers in any company, aside from possibly Google. You don't need sound support, or advanced graphical features - just a familiar GUI and the ability to move files around.

At my last place of work, I worked in the IT department, and often ran into situations where the YOU MUST ACTIVATE THIS PRODUCT IN 30 DAYS procedure refused to activate or even recognise my CD key. And those CD keys cost a fair amount of money. We had one server running Windows Server 2003, one running Windows Server 2000 and one running Red Hat Linux. All workstations were running Windows XP Business, which was absolutely perfect for what we did and the hardware we used. However, practically none of the machines in the office would have been able to run Vista Business or Server 2008 - we'd not only have to pay for a whole bunch of new Windows Licences, but also for a whole office's worth of new towers, servers and laptops. Since essentially all we needed to do was use Office, browse the web, and use a couple of pieces of in-house GUI programs, this huge upgrade would be a bit excessive. My hope, therefore, was to eventually replace Windows XP with ReactOS, when it became stable enough.

By the time I left, the Windows 2000 and Red Hat servers (plus a few of the workstations) had been switched over to Debian Etch, but I made sure to mention ReactOS to the guy who was replacing me and he told me that he'd keep an eye on it. Although Debian worked quite well on the hardware we had, the aforementioned in-house software was Windows-based, and our non-technical users were unwilling to let go of the familiarity of Windows XP.

wildschwein
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by wildschwein »

My interesse lays on "Joe Public". What will Million of home users do, when it's out that there is a new Windows like OS, that is enough for surfing, browsing the web and playing music (hope that sound will be in ROS beta).
And when it's clear, that it's NOT LINUX and has nothing do to with any *NIX Things.

I think - in my opion - the adaption of ROS, suppossed it is really stable, and supports also new hardware and their drivers, will be VERY FAST of millions of home users wordwide. Because they will here from the media or from friends, that is really like windows, that they don't feel any difference, BUT that it's FASTER than VISTA or SEVEN, and it's free. When people can save money, they will get in action. And if someone "poor" understands, that he or she don't has to buy a new computer, but only put ROS on the old, they will do. And if they can't, they will ask a neigbour a friend, or a collegue.

Fast adaption of ROS also means fast spreading, and that means MORE TESTERS, more highly skilled devellopers, which helps to make ROS better and better.
So in my opinion ROS is going his way and melting down Mircosoft Windows business in the next one or two decade.

GoBusto
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by GoBusto »

wildschwein wrote:Because they will here from the media or from friends, that is really like windows, that they don't feel any difference, BUT that it's FASTER than VISTA or SEVEN, and it's free. When people can save money, they will get in action.
This is, unfortunately, debatable - after all, OpenOffice.org is free and is pretty much the same as MS Office - yet you will find that quite a few people will still opt for using MS Office, despite the fact that they will have to either pay for it or break the law by installing it illicitly.

The way I see it, the only people who will download ReactOS (at least at first) will mainly be the same sort of people who download Linux distros. If ReactOS is included as a cover CD with some computer magazines, that will increase the user base beyond that - but you're still only really getting to people who are "computery", as my mum would say.

You still need to get through to non-computery people who just want to check MySpace and play MP3s, and also businesses who are looking to reduce costs (read: Windows licenses) without having to switch everything over to SomeOtherOS™ or do without Customer Support.

+ Joe "Not a power user" Public will (generally) use whatever comes pre-installed when they buy a new PC, whether it's Windows XP, Vista or possibly even some variation of GNU/Linux.
+ However, if it's not something that can run WHATEVER.EXE like their old Windows 2000 box can, then they're probably more likely to complain and ask for "one of those proper computers, with Windows on it."
+ This is where ReactOS scores over UNIX-based systems, since it CAN run everything WIndows XP does AND it has all the advantages of GNU/Linux for the manufacturer in terms of cost, licensing, customisation, etc.
+ Also, since you now have a Big Trusted Name selling ReactOS boxes, businesses who buy machines from them will be able to get that all-important Customer Support... and once they have seen that ReactOS really IS just as good as Windows, they might be willing to throw away the safety net of off-site Customer Support and simply have their IT teams download and install ReactOS directly.

Of course, the problem with getting manufacturers to back you is that they won't want to do anything that might make relations with Microsoft difficult, so perhaps in one sense "Windows 7 could already be stumbling block for ROS".

nute
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Re: Could ROS already be stumbling block for Windows 7

Post by nute »

Keep in mind that GNU/Linux despite it's problems and many variations works awfully well
and if MS Office is all you need, there's practically no reason to run Windows these days.
Also keep in mind that ReactOS has a long ways to go. I'll be excited when the graphics problems
are fixed and ReactOS doesn't blue screen as often. As far as the ReactOS can run everything
comment, VLC media player doesn't work yet. I'm not sure that anyone can produce a Windows
compatible OS that can run all Windows software. A major problem area that will drive people to
Vista and Windows 7 is the fact that most computers still come preinstalled with MS Windows.
Another major problem area is that the recording industry is really getting behind DRM, digital rights management, which is not part of ReactOS and probably shouldn't be. If DRM media had to be equally accessible to users of open source operating systems, that would be really interesting.

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