Microsoft working hand in hand with ReactOS...

[avatarpatch]

Hello,

I am basically moving a thought from another thread to hear to focus on this issue. I hope that this can be a actual discussion and not just a repository for remarks based on personal feelings but an actualy business debate and thinktank.

Basically this is what I have in mind:

1) Contact Microsoft and prapose a co-venture that would allow them to develope and release a DirectX that would work for ReactOS. Of course Microsoft would not do this for free. I would figure they would charge around $20 per liceanse of the DirectX per user. This would be fine with most people.

What this would do for ReactOS:

a) Help promote ReactOS and also have other developers out there to start thinking of making their Microsoft Based Products more friendly with ReactOS.

b) Save development time on some key features of ReactOS so that the developers can focus on more important features of the OS.

c) Assure 100% compatibility of Software and Game Titles that are realy hardcore Windows Dependant.

There is more but you get the lagistics of it.

What this would do for Microsoft:

a) I feel that it would probably bring users back from Linux and Mac OSs to the familiar Windows Style environment that is ReactOS. Thus allowing Microsoft to sell more of its products like MS Office Suite and Games for Windows titles, etc...

b) Microsoft would make money from a cheap package that would allow for ReactOS users to have this option. I for one would actualy pay for this feature... though I would never buy another MS WIndows again... no matter the version.

c) It would also give MS a very good feeback with their past history of Anti-Trust suits and more. While at the same time keep in focus their main goal... to make a profit.

I hope that I can enter into some real discussion with this posting.

Thank you,

David

[avatarpatch]

Oh and let me make this clear too... the package would not be released with ReactOS. It would be up to the individual users to purchase this package from either Microsoft or Reactos websites or other MS resellers.

[EmuandCo]

And what do we want to reach with ROS? Being free from MS and his Policy, so this wont work with us. Sorry

[avatarpatch]

Hmmm thats not realy a discussion hehehe.

Basically the package like I seid would not even be released with your package. I am rely rallying for their support. This would also help promote ReactOS as well.

[swight]

I do not think we should develop anything with the support of Microsoft or any other large company. This feels like we are tainting the project(and seems like there would be several legal issues as well). Another thing is we are working to be compatible with Windows. Not the other way around.

I would be more for being a legal user of Mircrosoft products like Office, Visual Studio(Express),ect.. But,this software often contains clauses in the license agreements that they must be installed on Windows.This is what I would talk to Microsoft about. Benefit of my idea would be legal testing and use of Microsoft products in ReactOS which could improve our compatibility with other windows apps as well.

[Z98]

MS would never accept any such deal, at least not with the current leadership, and I personally don't see a reason why they should either. Most of their detractors are people who have already jumped ship too. Hell, when Alex interviewed with them and said if they hired him, he'd want to continue working on ROS, they didn't make him an offer. MS devs are also not allowed to look at GPL'ed code either.

[avatarpatch]

Well the administration has been changing and as of last week Gates stepped down from his position. Also they are also working with other competitors like Macintos etc. Besides Like I seid I think it would also increase their money flow to allow support for their products on this system.

Just a thought. It wouldnt hurt to try.

Also they would not help with the development of ROS for the previous poster. They would just make a version of DirectX compatible wiht ROS and support for their office software.

[oiaohm]

Its not just personal bad feeling. Some of it is pure Why.

Number 1 in a Anti-trust case against Microsoft. Microsoft would be able to use Reactos to protect them. What in turn could see Microsoft not forced to release documents Reactos could use to expand its compatibly. So effectively killing us. Not a good deal for the Reactos project.

Number 2 Only a really small section of the world stops MS Direct X from being installed on Reactos. Is it worth Reactos even considering changing just for less that 5 percent of total market.

Microsoft would most likely say if we enter a joint venture with them that following on developing own Direct X would have to stop. Another not good thing for Reactos.

Number 3 getting users back from other camps.
Linux users that have been there too long will not come back to Reactos just because its open source. Reason after a particular ammout of time most Linux users are no longer dependent on any closed source applications or if they are dependent on closed source applications they don't run on windows also dependent on a lot of open source applications that don't run under windows. So getting users back form the Linux camp is not going to happen that simply.

Mac OS camp also not that simple reason they are paying more to get away from Vista and get a more stable interface. Deal with Microsoft does not help ros or Microsoft against that camp.

Requirements to get Linux Users back. Better security defaults as well as Something upto the old USA orange book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Co ... n_Criteria C2 and B3 as well as at least http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_Assurance_Level EAL4. If that seams like I am asking for a lot in Secuirty I am sorry but a lot of Linux Distributions all ready offer that. Means to run Linux binaries so translation pain is reduced.

swight: Legal part of software to run MS products on Reactos or Wine is globally protected if you have bought the product and not needing parts of like windows to run it. So that is a Zero issue.

[swight]

glad to hear that, in that case, no reason I can think of to talk to microsoft at this point.

[avatarpatch]

I thought DirectX doesnt work with ReactOS?

[oiaohm]

There is a branch working on fixing up the Reactos kernel so it can run Direct X. Reason why it does not work at moment is internal errors in Reactos. When fixed Direct X MS or Reactos own React X will work.

The side branch working on fix the problems can already run bits of Direct X. There is also wined3d that runs direct X threw opengl that can also operate on Reactos.

Reactos is not 100 percent Direct X less. No need to beg for help in that camp. Beg for more developers yes. Will speed process up. MS is not likely to give Reactos more developers.

[avatarpatch]

Wine will never be 100% compatible. I hope that they are not developing thier X support or clone based off of WINE.

[SdC]

The thought that you might actually strike a deal with MS is too ridiculous.
Windows is just a small part of Microsoft's Trustworthy Computing initiative.
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/twc/default.mspx
This provides content and software providers with a closed platform where DRM and that sort of thing are implemented and reasonably secure. An open source platform running Genuine Microsoft Windows (TM) components would, in the eyes of Microsoft and all parties that depend on the protection this platform provides, not be desirable.

Also they are also working with other competitors like Macintos etc.

You mean Apple? MS owns a substantial part of Apple, and it's JUST a basic Office version that runs on Mac. And it is a closed platform, so some basic forms of DRM are implemented.

..... It wouldnt hurt to try....

...not so sure about that; I've seen Steve Ballmer in action......
Finally:

release a DirectX that would work for ReactOS

They can't even release DirectX 10 for XP, so how would they be able to make a separate package for ReactOS is beyond me.
So naive.

[Radhad]

Nowadays you cannot run any Windows NT system without Direct X (ReactX) support, because it is one of the base APIs for alot of things like sound, graphical output (desktop) etc. - Windows depends on Direct X heavily!

[oiaohm]

avaterpatch its a lot more complex than you are giving credit for.

Wine wined3d is used with some emulators with windows to translate to opengl since emulator does not provide a Direct X interface other than software. So being compatible with it is a requirement. Nice advantage this already works with Reactos.

Sections of wined3d system are direct drop in replacement dlls to direct X. These sections duplicating makes no point. Instead both teams work on the same source so both teams get to better direct X sooner.

React X is focused. Doing the sections Wine cannot do directly in Direct X. Like running Direct X drivers and having dinput going threw the correct paths. A few anti cheat software fails in wine due to the simple fact that going threw virtual kernel structs are avoided in wine due to speed reasons. This case Reactos has to have the real kernel structs to run drivers.

100% compatible is not something that is exactly needed. Reason Windows versions are not even 100 percent compatible with each other. http://test.winehq.org/data/2893294f4b8 ... /#group_XP << One thing wine is finding a lot of inconsistency in the Windows API.

Then there is the final issue. MS Direct X 10 is only for particular versions of windows by Microsoft Design so how are we going to software work around only having Direct X 9 drivers and the like. If we have better opengl drivers to allow Direct X 10 to work with speed using wined3d. Giving up wined3d completely is foolishness. We want to provide people with the most function out the hardware we can grant them. Sometimes this does mean giving up some compatibility by some users.

Really Reactos will have 2 of its own Direct X systems ie React X and Wined3d. With the option of installing MS Direct X using the kernel structs of React X.

Things are almost always more complex than any black and white statement can explain. Please don't use the word Never in a assessment. predicting how many virtual structs wine will have in time is a little imposable. Never is too much time. Its unlikely for the next 5 years.