ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

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Haos
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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by Haos »

@GoBusto

Sorry, i was referring to that article

@oiaohm

You dont need 30 years of journalist experience to tell that at the current moment, ReactOS is no threat to Windows and needs sponsors. Like... no shit sherlock...

That girl is wrong about everything else... he has no idea about 2003. He only had seen 2003 server label and immediately considered ROS being server only.... Her knowledge about NT is... ZERO.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by GoBusto »

On a related note, I'm currently running Windows Server 2008 as my desktop OS, because it didn't cost me anything to download the 60 day trial. It's really not that much different from Vista, just with less Graphics.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by FlyingIsFun1217 »

GoBusto wrote:On a related note, I'm currently running Windows Server 2008 as my desktop OS, because it didn't cost me anything to download the 60 day trial. It's really not that much different from Vista, just with less Graphics.
What happens when those 60 days are up though?

I hate seeing articles like this. It makes me feel as if these journalists don't care about what they do.

FlyingIsFun1217

GoBusto
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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by GoBusto »

FlyingIsFun1217 wrote:What happens when those 60 days are up though?
I'll have to pay. Or reinstall. Or install another one of my operating systems. Not that I'm bothered, since I change my OS about once a month anyway.

EDIT: As it happens, the trial period expires in a few days. Perhaps I'll try the latest ReactOS SVN install as a replacement - it didn't boot last time I tried it, but that was a while ago.

EDIT: I'm currently dual booting Windows XP Professional x64 and Windows Server 2008. Whenever I come across one of those "You are using [Browser] on [Operating System]" things on the web, XP Pro x64 is reported as Server 2003 and Server 2008 is reported as Vista - meaning that my server OS is reported as a desktop OS and vice versa.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by oiaohm »

GoBusto
For the home user, the main problems are:
+ Is it simple to use?
+ Does it run all of my old programs?
+ Is it free (as in beer)?
Is it simple to use. Major issue for Linux is packaging in that regard. Nvidia and ATI drivers cannot be provided cleanly in compatible format for all distros that issue is going to disappear. Download and click installers will appear on Linux no need to go anywhere near console. Major user unfriendly ness tracks to that.

Running OLD programs we get at least 12 requests a month over that to port wine to windows due to windows not being able to run there old programs but wine can. So Linux has that bit at the same level as windows. Currently Ros does not support Win16 applications that we are getting lots and lots and lots of requests over. Some people love there old win16 games for some reason.

Final one I did not mention. Linux in build kernel virtualistation before end of year will be able to pass a real pci interface to a device to a contained OS. This even includes video card. Now this is where Ros is in trouble completing with Linux. For compatibility Linux will be able to take Ros whole including its direct X system. It is not like the virtualisation lacks good front ends http://ovirt.org .

Only real issue is does it run on your hardware note does not even have to be all of your hardware since you can always pass threw to a virtual machine for the devices Linux does not support in under 12 months.

Please note about on motherboard. Os on there boots in 2 seconds. This is part of the attack GoBusto. Do you go threw a full windows boot to get to MS Office or do you get to KOffice and Open Office sooner and use them instead. Provide advantage swapping is in Users best for user. OpenOffice over MS Office normally only provides a small advantage at best to a disadvantage at worst. Same for Ros it will have to provide advantage more than just being free to convert some groups off windows.

Linux is a completely different threat to Apple. Linux is doing the Embrace and Extend.

Haos
That girl is wrong about everything else... he has no idea about 2003. He only had seen 2003 server label and immediately considered ROS being server only.... Her knowledge about NT is... ZERO.
Please don't have me having to do this again everyone. Always look at articles like that and try to work how they came to that. The person has clearly gone pass the front page to know web development was not on the Roadmap. So for sure that has been looked at in assessment of where Reactos is going Haos. Reactos roadmap has basically nothing targeted at desktop use on it even the direct x in development is not listed there in any form. Application testing on the Roadmap could perfectly be for a thin terminal server.

Improve the Roadmap its tell us 100 percent clear. Best option will be to include a section list stuff being worked on that cannot be road mapped to version at this time due to the complexity of doing it on the Roadmap. So improving the appearance of the project.

Just a lot of people are trying to disregard it. This is long term harm to Reactos. Now pull your head out the sand Haos and see you have screwed up and say you are sorry to the author.

PS No NT knowledge or any other knowledge is normally used in assessments of where a project is going. It the projects Roadmap. Now if its not matching where its really going we have these problems of incorrect assessments.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by Haos »

Please don't have me having to do this again everyone. Always look at articles like that and try to work how they came to that. The person has clearly gone pass the front page to know web development was not on the Roadmap. So for sure that has been looked at in assessment of where Reactos is going Haos. Reactos roadmap has basically nothing targeted at desktop use on it even the direct x in development is not listed there in any form. Application testing on the Roadmap could perfectly be for a thin terminal server.
Or to a office machine, simple web-browsing, email-answering PC, base for running coLinux, remote control other windows boxes with RDP... do i have to make up more uses? Oiaohm, on NT server use differs from desktop use only by a thin layer of some specialized services and some tools. Nothing more, as the base is identical. Windows 2003 can do splendidly as a desktop OS and it doesnt matter if you install DirectX on it or not. ReactOS is the same stuff. You dont need to declare it for desktop or server use. It is all included when we say we are adopting NT model...
Improve the Roadmap its tell us 100 percent clear. Best option will be to include a section list stuff being worked on that cannot be road mapped to version at this time due to the complexity of doing it on the Roadmap. So improving the appearance of the project.
Just a lot of people are trying to disregard it. This is long term harm to Reactos. Now pull your head out the sand Haos and see you have screwed up and say you are sorry to the author.
No, i am not. If someone is so bold to express his opinion publicly about any project, especially while backing it up with his/hers "30 years of journalist experience" in that area, i expect some knowledge about the stuff being described. I also expect some homework and background check being done, questions asked if any difficult or unclear things arise. This is what i could call journalism...Here, we got someone having a glimpse of our main www page, not backed up by even basic knowledge about the topic... many amateur bloggers show more interest and curiosity... I call this total ignorance.

Dont defend her oiaohm. Imperfection of our roadmap, nor of our wiki wont explain her actions. She is not some average John Doe, expecting to have everything served on a platter. She is a bloody journalist. Experienced one, as she claims. Well, she should act like one...

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by GoBusto »

Haos wrote:Dont defend her oiaohm. Imperfection of our roadmap, nor of our wiki wont explain her actions. She is not some average John Doe, expecting to have everything served on a platter. She is a bloody journalist. Experienced one, as she claims. Well, she should act like one...
A minor correction, Haos, Dana is the guy.

oiaohm, I'd have to agree with Haos on that point - If you're going to write about something, you should at least take more than a cursory look at the website frontpage first. "Never judge a book by it's cover" and all that.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by oiaohm »

I am sorry to have to say haos not seeing that the call is right. Linux base is the same as well when desktop or server. Here is the but. When reading roadmap of Linux Distributions you can pick targeted markets by what is covered.

Reactos Roadmap reads as one targeted more to server usage and as pointed out in the article for server usage we are missing web on the road map in some form that should be there. Note a journalist wanting to destroy us would have not pointed out where we can fix would have used more grey wording like does not cover all the necessary services for business use.. I see the roadmap been updated a little recently to read a bit more desktop.

The catch is information in the article GoBusto tells me that the journalist did go as deep as they should have to make a assessment on the direction a project is going. Yes Haos 30 year experience the journalist did look in the right places. Now issue of that article being badly wrong is really Reactos documentation fault. Not making sure Roadmap covered everything that was going on about the future of Reactos.

Journalists only ever produce as correct of assessment as the documentations give to them. Ours suxed so assessment suxed. Blaming the Journalist for getting it wrong when it was Reactos wrong information is nothing more than a cop out to avoid having to fix it. Its like a owner of a cafe blaming a reviewer for saying they only are targeting lower class people when the plans are to support upper class but the current menus read as a lower class place then not improving the menus and expect the next reviewer to report differently. That is what you are doing Haos.

We need to all take journalists being critics in our stride. If everything is in order then you can rip into them and I will not defend them. This case everything is not in order. Judgement was fair. Wrong but fair. Also journalist did not rip us apart without providing feedback. What does that tell us. Step up provide better information and next time around we will get a different review. They are not always going to see it from Reactos point of view this is a given.

Here is the important thing do we want a journalist with 30 years experience hating Reactos because we insulted them without valid grounds. The answer is no. Now 30 years experience also tells me has got it wrong before at different times and had to do corrections. Lets work on getting the correction. This negativity is not good for the project haos. It will be wise to find a way to block it out when it comes to journalist and check if there call could have been made validly from the provided Reactos information. If yes like this case don't insult them. Update our information then emailing them asking kindly for them to look again.

Its 1 review there will be many more. A incorrect review now is not a project killer. Incorrect review when ready to get market share large problem.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by GoBusto »

oiaohm wrote:Here is the important thing do we want a journalist with 30 years experience hating Reactos because we insulted them without valid grounds. The answer is no. Now 30 years experience also tells me has got it wrong before at different times and had to do corrections. Lets work on getting the correction. This negativity is not good for the project haos.
While I still think that you should do more than just glance at the roadmap to really understand exactly what ReactOS is all about, oiaohm makes an undeniable point here - flaming someone because they are wrong, whether it was their fault, the ROS webpage's fault or whatever, is not the way forward. Explanations are. I'm sure that this Dana guy would be happy to stand corrected, so long as he were given enough salient information about why ReactOS is not just for servers, actually.

Perhaps the best course of action, when writing a report entitled So Just What Is This ReactOS Thing Anyway, would be for a journalist to actually talk with the dev team on IRC. The dev team are seldom several months out of date and can answer questions that are not covered sufficiently by existing documentation.

Of course, time spent doing interviews is time taken away from actually coding stuff.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by oiaohm »

There is another option to Roadmap listing everything. Its like the Linux Weather Forecast. Complete list of features and goals the project has. Linux Weather Forecasts was also created because of the same kind of issues with media.

Its not just the roadmap GoBusto just take yourself on a tour of the Reactos website. You will find other than the forums there are very few clues that ros is for desktop use. So wrong assessment just has to be kinda expected. Also some topics in forum get cut off with like not at this time. Getting the roadmap correct is kinda key because its one place you are sure a journalist will look. Since roadmap displays the future goals of a project and are heavy weight will be placed on it in judgement.

There is nothing that says the journalist in this case did not. And just did ask the wrong kinds of questions and got cut off and took away some wrong ideas. Old rule never let a person ask a question that you don't want to stuff up. Document the answer correctly.

I think I have a minor advantage here. I have had to create reports on future paths of applications. Yes from time to time I got it wrong. More often than not it was caused by documentation that looked complete but was incomplete. If I forget what I know about reactos and just look at what is on the website I could make exactly the same mistake. I know I am not incompetent at doing assessment from my past track records.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by Haos »

@Gobusto

This is even worse, as a chauvinist pig, i`d expect less from a women...:>
Ok. Just kidding.

@oiaohm

I`d like then to ask you to point out most important features that divide Server NT from Desktop NT. Prefrably short and direct.
I am sorry to have to say haos not seeing that the call is right. Linux base is the same as well when desktop or server. Here is the but. When reading roadmap of Linux Distributions you can pick targeted markets by what is covered.
So what? So called "desktop linux" can be as well used as a server, and vice versa. This is just a brand, a marketing name. Something an experienced journalist should know in a first place.
Reactos Roadmap reads as one targeted more to server usage and as pointed out in the article for server usage we are missing web on the road map in some form that should be there.
I totally disagree. Our roadmap aims at creating a base for NT system, containing only the core and required elements for a widest array of usability. Yes, its outdated, but i failed to notice anything there, that would point anyone to consider ReactOS being "a Server only" system, as Dana pointed in his article. What more, i suspect that he considered ReactOS a server only os only because it is based off Windows 2003 Server. This is why i speak aloud of Dana`s incompetence, as a journalist.
Note a journalist wanting to destroy us would have not pointed out where we can fix would have used more grey wording like does not cover all the necessary services for business use.. I see the roadmap been updated a little recently to read a bit more desktop.
We are being "destroyed" several times a week, with every ReactOS revision, saying frankly, that ROS doesnt work at the moment. Do we stop them all? How? Again, there is nothing in Roadmap that would suggest ReactOS being Server not Desktop. NT is both. Same as Linux. Period.
The catch is information in the article GoBusto tells me that the journalist did go as deep as they should have to make a assessment on the direction a project is going. Yes Haos 30 year experience the journalist did look in the right places. Now issue of that article being badly wrong is really Reactos documentation fault. Not making sure Roadmap covered everything that was going on about the future of Reactos.
The catch is that those journalist has never seen Windows 2003 Server in their very own eyes, never had occasion to use it. They have no idea what it is. Then, they noticed "Windows 2003 Server" on our website, and took it as the core of that article. ReactOS is no threat to Windows, because it is a "Server OS"... I do not agree with your opinion that theyt went as deep as they should. I seen many bloggers, being no journalists, or just amateurs, dig a lot deeper. Many of them actually asking questions about things they weren`t sure of. That ZDnet article is nothing close even to amateur journalism... It is just a simple copypasta from our main page, with artificial thesis based on a made up opinion... It has nothing in common with journalism at all.
Journalists only ever produce as correct of assessment as the documentations give to them.
Nope, they usually dig around and cross-check the info, because reliable journalists are feeling kinda responsible for producing solid work.
Ours suxed so assessment suxed.
This means those journalists sux.
Blaming the Journalist for getting it wrong when it was Reactos wrong information is nothing more than a cop out to avoid having to fix it. Its like a owner of a cafe blaming a reviewer for saying they only are targeting lower class people when the plans are to support upper class but the current menus read as a lower class place then not improving the menus and expect the next reviewer to report differently. That is what you are doing Haos.
This situation is similar to a doctor, blaming his patient of not providing him the medical diagnosis, when he should do it himself. And you are telling us that the patient should tell his physician what the illness is and how to cure it. This is what you are doing oiaohm. I am merely expecting some professional knowledge.
We need to all take journalists being critics in our stride. If everything is in order then you can rip into them and I will not defend them. This case everything is not in order. Judgement was fair. Wrong but fair. Also journalist did not rip us apart without providing feedback. What does that tell us. Step up provide better information and next time around we will get a different review. They are not always going to see it from Reactos point of view this is a given.
He didnt ask for a feedback. IIRC, he didnt even try to acquire any information. If he`d try to do so, and was refused, all the blame would be fair. I also do not accept your approach to judgements.
Judgements can be true or false. If a judgement is untrue, it cannot be fair in the same time.
There is no force in this world that could present a complete information. This project is a living thing. With our scale of operations, we would need a group of people responsible only for keeping info up to date. And yet, it would often require interested parties to contact us in person.
Here is the important thing do we want a journalist with 30 years experience hating Reactos because we insulted them without valid grounds.
No, we have a journalist with so called experience, writing up stuff he has no idea or knowledge about, making up thesis, and supporting them with his ignorance. We had all the valid grounds in this world to oppose to this.
The answer is no. Now 30 years experience also tells me has got it wrong before at different times and had to do corrections. Lets work on getting the correction. This negativity is not good for the project haos.
The negativity originates within this article. Do not try to push it to our side. This journalist seemed not to take any experience out of his 30 years of career. Or the article was supposed to be biased against us right from the start. It is either maliciousness or ignorance. Pick one yourself.
It will be wise to find a way to block it out when it comes to journalist and check if there call could have been made validly from the provided Reactos information. If yes like this case don't insult them. Update our information then emailing them asking kindly for them to look again.
It would be wise to have some sort of responsibility for stuff one writes and publishes under his own name. Sorry, i failed to see any sign of good faith, nor any attempt to seek the truth.
Its 1 review there will be many more. A incorrect review now is not a project killer. Incorrect review when ready to get market share large problem.
Unless you didnt notice, we had several wrong reviews. Yet, we are still alive. We are gonna make it, then.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by Black_Fox »

Haos wrote:artificial thesis based on a made up opinion... It has nothing in common with journalism at all.
On contrary, this is what modern masmedial journalism often looks like :mrgreen:

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by GoBusto »

oiaohm wrote:Its not just the roadmap GoBusto just take yourself on a tour of the Reactos website. You will find other than the forums there are very few clues that ros is for desktop use. So wrong assessment just has to be kinda expected.
Ah, very clever, Mr. Bond - but let's see how you handle this!
ReactOS frontpage wrote:ReactOS® is an advanced free open source operating system providing a ground-up implementation of a Microsoft Windows® XP compatible operating system. ReactOS aims to achieve complete binary compatibility with both applications and device drivers meant for NT and XP operating systems, by using a similar architecture and providing a complete and equivalent public interface.
...
In short, ReactOS is aiming to run your applications and use your hardware, a free operating system for everyone!
The front page states that XP compatability is one of the aims, everyone knows that XP is a desktop system, and you don't even have to click on one of those complicated hyperlinky things to find this. Plus, I find it difficult to believe that, when people hear "Windows Clone," they automatically assume that means "for server use," rather than desktop use. We all know that the stereotype is that Windows Is For Desktops and Linux Is For Servers.

I'm guessing that Dana actually didn't go much further than the front page. We know he looked this far because he mentions the Long Term Plans being "N/A at the moment" but I'm guessing that he got the Windows Server 2003 bit, not from ReactOS.org, but from the John Dvorak thing he refers to near the start, since Dvorak states that ROS is based on Server 2003 rather than just NT 5.x in the recording.
Haos wrote:Unless you didnt notice, we had several wrong reviews. Yet, we are still alive.
This was a triumph, huge success, etc.

EDIT: Surely the screenshots section shows that ReactOS works as a desktop system?

Haos
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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by Haos »

This was a triumph, huge success, etc.
I know, nothing to be proud of.
I'm guessing that Dana actually didn't go much further than the front page. We know he looked this far because he mentions the Long Term Plans being "N/A at the moment" but I'm guessing that he got the Windows Server 2003 bit, not from ReactOS.org, but from the John Dvorak thing he refers to near the start, since Dvorak states that ROS is based on Server 2003 rather than just NT 5.x in the recording.
Since Windows 2003 Server is NT 5.2, do i smell double FAIL? Well, i do not agree with Dvorak`s approach towards Windows Registy anyway.

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Re: ReactOS is no threat to Windows.

Post by Angelus »

I would say that Windows will be no threat to ReactOS :wink:

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