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Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:29 am
by jimtabor
I don't know what is going on with the release at this time and I can not say when the new patch management software will be ready so I can continue the win32k rewrite. I'm not part of the decision apparatus due to it has already been decided for me.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:29 am
by Logwad
On the front page in the "Roadmap" section, it says this:
Short-term plan

The next release will be 0.3.5, with an earliest projected release date being May, 2008.
If I may, I propose that the date be changed or worded otherwise. Even though it is technically correct, it is bound to confuse some people.


It certainly seems that this forum thread is attracting confused people. >_>

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:47 pm
by JimGunn
As far as i am aware, it is all correct.

If you know of any errors, please point them out.
jimtabor wrote:Yes I remember most of this, I remember Alan Cox throwing a fit over some of this too. I even asked him what was going on and he told me more moronic bull shit like always.
Wow,
not bad jimgunn?
JimGunn wrote:Bad assumption. On this topic, I definitely know what I am talking about.

Seems some of you boys need examples of sabotage:

Martin von Löwis created the original (read only) Linux NTFS driver back in 1995.

It was added to the Linux Kernel (2.1.74) in December 1997.

He added almost full write support in 1999 in the 2.4 series kernel (versions 1.x of the driver).

Microsoft agents were able to have the read/write NTFS support removed form the kernel by simply telling a never ending list of transparent lies.

The main lie was that NTFS write support was extremely dangerous to use.

This is obviously being used as a lie, as even if NTFS write support was extremely dangerous, simply fixing the code would render it safe.

But what happened,... instead of fixing the code, they tossed the kernel NTFS write support away.

Well, it wasn't tossed completely away. The REACTOS people fixed (whatever minor problems that there were) the NTFS kernel code and use it to this day.

Anton Altaparmakov rewrote the NTFS driver and removed all write support from it (versions 2.x). This deletion of the write code being "justified" by how "dangerous" this code was.

This new "improved" driver was added to the 2.5.11 kernel in April 2002.

That is, write support was totally deleted form the kernel in 2.5.11.

Crippled write support was again added in the 2.5.33 kernel.

This now essentially, read only driver, is what one still has in the 2.6.x kernels.

So this is the story as to how the Microsoft agents got NTFS write support deleted from the kernel.

To stop users from crying out for a NTFS write solution in the kernel, a new project to take the kernel code and turn it into a user-space driver was begun. It was figured that a Linux user-space driver would be much slower and not make it so obvious how bad Window's NTFS filesystem really is.

To see how successful this strategy of lies was,... consider that non-trivial write support was delayed until July 2006 when Szabolcs Szakacsits released his user-space driver, ntfs-3g, and that, to this day, Linux does not have a NTFS kernel driver.

Late in 2002 Red Hat & Microsoft agents had the read only NTFS support removed from Red Hat's kernels.Red Hat was the only major distribution to remove the read only NTFS support.

They used a number of lies to achieve this. The most amusing was that:

"NTFS read only support will corrupt your filesystem."

It seemed that any stupid lie was good enough. The Red Hat lies were even more stupid than Microsoft's. Apparently both of these companies think the average person is a total moron.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:50 pm
by JimGunn
EmuandCo wrote:If anyone, JimGunn or not, posts any more lies which are stupid enough to be believed by the "normal kind" of ppl and could harm us, I will gift him with a banhammer.
Do you think that the REACTOS people are harmed in some way?

REACTOS people are the only folk to come out of this without noticeable blemish. They fixed Martin von Löwis' NTFS kernel code and are still using it to this day.

So why the "could harm us?" Are you speaking for some group other than REACTOS? I guess so.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:55 pm
by Haos
Yes JimGun, we are agents paid by Microsoft.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:34 pm
by EmuandCo
Well. Your posts look a bit like you want to compare the recent changes in ROS internal with MS which wants to slow down our progress. You should know best how gossip starts. Some n00b misunderstands something and TADAAA. "OMGAWD! WTFBBQ!!! WE GAT KILLED BY STEVEN, THE SECOND BILL GATES OF MS!!!" And thats what i wanna prevent.


Well... and I was in bad mood yesterday ;-) Sorry for being rude.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:32 pm
by Otiose
My money is on JimGunn being a secret Microsoft agent. What better way to to make himself not look like an agent, than to assert there are secret agents out there (silently implying he is not one of them)

Be afraid... be very afraid.

Anyway, I hope the team is back on track now. As a dev, I know how much ego there is, and how people are attached to their code. It's definitely hard to just swallow your pride, at even the slightest bit of criticism. While GL had a right to get upset on a personal level, the thing he failed to really understand is that, when you're working on a project with a group of people, you don't get personal - you remain professional. If my boss came to me and said that some things I was doing impacted other dev's, and for that reason there would be another step in getting my code into the trunk, I'd be a bit insulted, sure. But I'm only left with two options at that point: *Graciously* resign, or accept what's occured, and try to learn from it, overcome it, as it'll likely make me a better dev all around.

To take it personal, make personal attacks in return, and then spread rumours about the team/company, is just juvenile. It's an attitude that's hard to get rid of, and move on, as I'm sure GL is convinced he is completely in the right, and will conceivably do the same thing again one day.

Anyway, I hope this doesn't damage the ReactOS' team morale, or slow things down (much more). You guys are doing a fantastic job, and while I'm sure the incessant "When's the next release going to be???" may get annoying, remember that it's only because people are quite excited about the project, and want to see it grow and grow. It's always better to have people annoy you about the next release, than have no one even know about your project. :)

~Otiose

PS. I would help out as a dev, but I'm actually am a MS dev, so I don't think I can have much to do with this project. Maybe help out with the website or something...

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:39 pm
by Black_Fox
Maybe something like 0.3.4.9 could be released to point out that it isn't 0.3.5 yet, but to satisfy hunger for a new "official" version.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:18 pm
by Radhad
How does it help to release a buggy version? Everyone would cry that this or that does not work. Go and get a build and try it - that's the same.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:46 pm
by Black_Fox
I guess that buggy releases are an inevitable part of ReactOS's alpha stage anyway...

EDIT: I meant that they aren't supposed to fully work and be stable.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:00 pm
by Radhad
No, it is not. Therefore they provide builds to download.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:12 pm
by Zvince
Well, anyway, 0.35 will be released when its ready.
There is no need for an alpha version to be released ASAP ...

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:04 pm
by Carlo Bramix
Hello.
Perhaps this sentence has been already written TOO MANY times, but there are the svn builds available for downloads.
All these releases demonstrate how the development is advancing.
They are not too different from a 0.3.5 (with some bugs still open) or a 0.3.4.9(???).
There is not an official release out yet, but it's not true that you are forced to stay with the old 0.3.4.

Sincerely,

Carlo Bramini.

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:27 am
by Hunkadoodledoo
Otiose wrote:Anyway, I hope this doesn't damage the ReactOS' team morale, or slow things down (much more). You guys are doing a fantastic job, and while I'm sure the incessant "When's the next release going to be???" may get annoying, remember that it's only because people are quite excited about the project, and want to see it grow and grow. It's always better to have people annoy you about the next release, than have no one even know about your project. :)
My sentiments exactly!

You guys (and girls?) have made huge progress and are at least making builds available (unlike some developers...cough, Pavel Kanzelsberger, cough). I understand your motives, and I hope you take my wish for an imminent release as motivation and not nagging. Setbacks bedamned, keep up the good work!

Re: Can we expext a new release one of these days ?

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:49 am
by Haos
Thanks to our new dev - Goplat, one of the biggest issue so far has been fixed - FF installer freeze. I must say i personally lost faith it could be fixed in a near future, but i`m glad being wrong. So guys, big applause for Goplat!

0.3.5 has been already branched, we are doing last checks and patching to it, so we can expect release before July.