Version 0.3.4 & ReactX

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tinivole
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Post by tinivole » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:00 am

I can see it becoming more of a moral thing, rather than a legal or illegal option...

For example, take the Nvidia drivers for Linux.

Apparently having the proprietry Nvidia drivers installed on linux is illegal (according to GPL).

But that still doesn't stop people preferring to install the proprietry over the open-source substitute...
Last edited by tinivole on Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Z98
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Post by Z98 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:03 am

To a certain extent, we already are compatible with DX. But we're not going to be encouraging anyone to try it. Also, MS might be using that genuine Windows check thing, I don't remember. Cracking that is illegal, at least in the States. We'll leave it to your common sense to decide what to do, but the reasoning is we're not touching the matter so MS can't do some 'negligence' charge.

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:30 am

Nvidia Drivers for Linux are legal as a kernel module fall under the same as software.

Now most people don't know this but if you linked the Nvidia module into the main kernel so its all just one file its then illegal. Default linux kernel assembling system will refuse to do this. Due to the Nvidia module not have a GPL license flag.

Nvidia a while back stuck a GPL flag on it so there module so the build of module did not display warning notice about it not being GPL. That is were the myth of it being illegal come from. It broke the safety in the Linux Kernel build system and could have seen the module linking into the kernel monolith what would have been illegal.

Ie Kernel module equals software when its just a loadable module and can be under any license. But if that module can be linked into the Linux Kernel monolith it must be GPL. Simple divide.

Note Linux kernel GPL is not plain GPL it has a few extras.

Tinivole you have a lot of myths or misunderstanding.

There are ways to legally break EULA and other licenses. Even under USA law. It is permit able to install MS Direct X for compatibility testing. Note only for that everywhere. So no production/home use. Basically useless.

Basically when Reactos gets big enough we might be able to get a legal ruling over Direct X. There is a lot of questions if a part you allow programs to install without asking users can be protected. Note some games will install Direct X 9 without asking if a lower version is present. Note these Direct X 9 install on wine. So no WGA.

Wine also uses the compatibility clause in DCMA in places. Reason why wine appdb can tell people to just break copy protection to play some games yes perfectly legal to break copy protection to run something you legally own license to even if license says you cannot run on XYZ platform.

Big thing with breaking it is that the program must not be working due to copy protection blocking it and you are not breaking it to play a pirated copy. These loop holes could be hell for media produces. In theory removing the drm from wmv files to play on a device that does not support wmv would be perfect legal and above board.

This may also cover Direct X on ros. Ie Ros need MS Direct X to run XYZ application since Direct X was provided with the application without safe guards the EULA might fall completely in heap under the compatibility clause.

Problem is direct downloading Direct X or using some non bundled form license most likely will stand.

If or if not Reactos can use MS Direct X is a court case. If someone has the money and wants to take it to court to find out please do. Ros does not have the funds to waste on something like that.

FlyingIsFun1217
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Post by FlyingIsFun1217 » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:15 am

I'm sure having their own implementation is also cleaner, and possibly faster.

FlyingIsFun1217

eiffel
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Post by eiffel » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 am

This is not my ideea, but Wine. And ReactOS is based partially on Wine.

Those wich are familiar with Wine may remember that even if wine has his own libraries they recomends if posible to use an existing windows instalation or windows libraries for better compatibility. There are links on the Wine site wich show how to install them - like WineTools link...

And with certain libraries this is legal as there is no mention on their Eula about the obligation to install them on an Windows machine or the Eula can be legally break if you already own an Windows licence.

And creators of ReactOS canot be acted in justice by MS only for the fact that their OS is compatible with Microsoft libraries as long as their distribution does not contains any Microsoft code inside. Users are free to chose what they want to install on their ReactOS sistem in the same way as they use Linux with Wine.

GreatLord
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Post by GreatLord » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:46 am

we will never have a link to ms dll or any way tell you how to get ms dll/exe, ms are now using geninues check on their website.

if u read the EULA carfull it always say for only be install on ms windows.
That goes with all apps they are doing.

Radhad
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Post by Radhad » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:22 am

GreatLord wrote:we will never have a link to ms dll or any way tell you how to get ms dll/exe, ms are now using geninues check on their website.

if u read the EULA carfull it always say for only be install on ms windows.
That goes with all apps they are doing.
So they restricted Microsoft Office to be used only on a Microsoft Windows OS? But there are a lot of countries where the EULA is not legal, because it contains a lot of points which have to be public before you buy it. So in some countries it is allowed?

GreatLord
Developer
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Post by GreatLord » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:01 pm

I am not a lawer, so I do not known what my contry say about it.
I think it is illage todo so in EU. But not in USA.

in EU they say if a program can be run on x it allown to run on x

so I think the EULA does not applay here.

Then next issue is that when the seller sell u office or a apps he is obagtions to inform u, about the licen what is vaild. But ms often include
the licen on the cd at install. no papper. so accodring swedish law that is not allown todo so. all licen must be infrom writen and the seller need tell you. So

I do not known how the law will act in this case how have the right ms or u.

We should have a real lawer to answers on this question.

tinivole
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:02 pm

Post by tinivole » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:00 pm

oiaohm wrote: Tinivole you have a lot of myths or misunderstanding.
To be honest, how can we ever know what is true or false?

Sorry, I'm just saying what I read.
It appeared in the boot-up message of the linux distro "LinuXgamers" saying that it doesn't ship with the proprietry drivers because it is illegal according to the GPL standards. And I don't tend to argue, because GPL is rather like that.

But I suppose shame on me for challenging what I read either...

I suppose I'd be also wrong in saying...
- King Henry VIII had only 2 wives,
- Apples, Peaches and Apricots are berries, whereas strawberries, blackcurrents and grapes aren't,
- Lithuania has the highest suicide rate in the world,
- Witches found guilty were acquitted,
- The train was invented in 600 AD, but was never thought to be placed on the railway, that was made some 400 years earlier,
- Jesus was not born on the 25th December. A Roman Demi-god called Mithras was! Like the story that christianity portrays, Mithras was born of a virgin and son of a god, he had twelve "disciples", he was also betrayed by a fellow disciple and crucified, to be later ressurected...
- Haggis, Kilts, Bagpipes, The Royal Bank of Scotland... Some of the cultural things that weren't invented by the Scots...

Or would I?..

It's just what you accept as being true, rather than the unbiased view of the world.

eiffel
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Post by eiffel » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:48 am

we will never have a link to ms dll or any way tell you how to get ms dll/exe
I never say something like that. It's an misunderstanding. I've say that Wine has links where there are informations on how to install. Even they, don't link to Microsoft. This is an difference.

On the other side I don't believe that letting the user to decide what it installs on your OS can involve you in any kind of law breaking. In fact at this point can you decide what those wich have downloaded ReactOS can install more or less legally ?!? And making ReactOS compatible with MS Windows is not your goal ?

More, if the user own an legal copy of windows it's also covered by law.

And btw - downloading MS runtimes is not covered by the genuine check.

GreatLord
Developer
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Location: Sweden

Post by GreatLord » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:21 pm

Hi

I have send this question to two free lawers.
got respone from one of them now
I will translate later what they say.

I am supriess over some part of their answers.

FlyingIsFun1217
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:56 am

Post by FlyingIsFun1217 » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:26 pm

Cool, can't wait to see what it says.

FlyingIsFun1217

oiaohm
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Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:40 am

Post by oiaohm » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:30 pm

"LinuXgamers" Yep some people who follow the myth get a long way up there. GPL on Linux kernel has a few add on clauses.
[b]From Linux GPL[/b]
[quote]These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If
identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program,
and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in
themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those
sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you
distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based
on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of
this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the
entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it.[/quote]
Drivers are identifiable sections kernel does not explode with failure if they are removed. Ie GPL of Linux don't apply. Now if its allowed to link into the single image file then it applies. Thin line.

Yes 100 percent myth.

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