Could ReactOS be possible without WINE project?

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cmoibenlepro
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Post by cmoibenlepro »

Reactos includes SumatraPDF http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/

In ReactOS project, sumatrapdf is 10X more important than freedos.
Freedos is sh*t compared to sumatrapdf

So it should be called SumatraPDF/Wine not FreeDos/Wine, everybody knows that!

PS. Isn't there any moderators here? This thread is tedious...
.aart3k
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Post by .aart3k »

Some people are yelling at forart for his pionts of view instead of taking care of real trolls like Nixon
Ged
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Post by Ged »

too many people are replying to things they don't fully understand. The only reply in this whole topic which isn't flawed is Jim Tabor's.
oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm »

Smiley Sorry wrong. You can boot Reactos without any Wine parts or replacements.

Windows NT has subsystems. So do Reactos. If you are nuts you could build a completely different subsystem and boot that. Or you could be lazy and stop boot at logo screen looping for ever since you set it not to startup a subsystem. Yes it booted just not that useful.

Reactos is its own thing. Useful requires some extras that can be sourced from where ever. Linux is the same just kernel loading is not that useful most of the time.
Nixer
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Post by Nixer »

Linux kernel without GNU is useful and it used in embeeded systems etc. Windows NT I never heared to be used without sybsystem. One of the reasons is that Linux kernel contains filesystem code while NT kernel does not.
oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm »

Subsystem is not required to load filesystem drivers under NT design either.

Alex Ionescu loaded a command line running directly on a NT kernel style kernel.

Microsoft has made it extreamally hard not to use there subsystems. Reason they change the syscalls in Window NT based OS's between versions. So Microsoft own actions cause it not to be subsystemless.

Linux has stable syscalls. Linux and Windows NT do different module systems.

In Windows NT style system the boot loader has the responsibility of loading required drivers and kernel into memory. These drivers include memory manager. Yes without drivers NT Kernel is DOA. Very much like a Microkernel. Note after boot loader when it enters kernel its still upto the kernel to load the subsystems. So you can opt out at that point and run you own program instead if Microsoft made it simple.

Linux loads into memory like a monolithic with a known ram filesystem to store extras in.

Just a difference in design. Windows NT design does have some advantages it can contain hardware targeted parts without no generic funtions just by selecting start up drivers. Where linux normally loads the generics as well. Yes its also why Windows NT OS are like to blue screen on startup before subsystems are loaded when moved to different hardware. + and - location both just choose different paths.
Nixer
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Post by Nixer »

By the way, will it be some native application support in Reactos?


Yet another question: is there any command line interpreter designed as an NT's native application?
InFeRnODeMoN
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Post by InFeRnODeMoN »

Nixer wrote:By the way, will it be some native application support in Reactos?


Yet another question: is there any command line interpreter designed as an NT's native application?
ReactOS is supposed to be a NT clone, you twit.
And CMD.exe is a NT app, Mr Wacko.

Stop trolling this forum! We have enough forum troublemakers.
Ged
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Post by Ged »

oiaohm wrote:You can boot Reactos without any Wine parts or replacements.
There are various components in reactos which contain Wine derrived code or complete Wine dlls which are vital to the boot process and the running of reactos as a whole. e.g. user32, win32k, rpcrt4 .. etc
Windows NT has subsystems. So do Reactos. If you are nuts you could build a completely different subsystem and boot that.
Other subsystems still depend on the win32k subsystem. The system can't run without this
Or you could be lazy and stop boot at logo screen looping for ever since you set it not to startup a subsystem. Yes it booted just not that useful.
I would hardly call that a boot, huge parts of the system are completley unusable and uninitialized
Nixer
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Post by Nixer »

InFeRnODeMoN wrote:And CMD.exe is a NT app, Mr Wacko.
cmd.exe is not a native application.
InFeRnODeMoN
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Post by InFeRnODeMoN »

Nixer wrote:
InFeRnODeMoN wrote:And CMD.exe is a NT app, Mr Wacko.
cmd.exe is not a native application.
You confuse CMD.exe and COMMAND.com, which clearly shows that you lack understanding of these matters.
Nixer
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Post by Nixer »

Ged wrote: Other subsystems still depend on the win32k subsystem. The system can't run without this
Native applications though can run without win32k and any other subsystem.
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Post by Nixer »

InFeRnODeMoN wrote: You confuse CMD.exe and COMMAND.com, which clearly shows that you lack understanding of these matters.
The both are not native applications :-)
oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm »

Ged I was stoping at the bare min point of a OS core running.

subsystems depend on ntdll.dll to operate. Mostly due to the fact they cannot depend on directly calling the kernel due to changing syscalls. Reactos this could be different. Note in first NT design ntdll.dll was outside the win32k subsystem.

Of course Ged putting a replacement subsystem in without win32k and ntdll.dll will require a more complex project. Because the subsystem would have to init the os itself. The point I was cutting at is about the closest point in Window NT design to a Linux kernel without a init system. Yep that point in Linux stack of things are not uninitialized. All extra modules are not loaded. A huge mother of a scary mess. Your application need to init or in windows case have the boot loader start what it needs or its dead meat. This is not fun under Linux. Reason why most linux devices endup running a compat form of a linux init system because its simpler. Under windows nt design for me downright scary. Yet there could be applications where doing this to NT would have a advantage. Because it should be insanely light.

The linux init system starts inside the initrd. And initrd is optional.

Nixer there are basically no true linux style Native only need kernel applications other than parts that come with windows even then that number is limited. Changing kernel interfaces have seen to that. Any part doing native system calls in windows is basically not transferable.

Nixer little niceness thing if no one has posted after you yet edit your last post and include a addon.

Yes the freeloader doing a plug and play scan of what drivers it needs would be good for portable devices. But that is a long term furture thing.
Nixer
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Post by Nixer »

oiaohm wrote:
subsystems depend on ntdll.dll to operate. Mostly due to the fact they cannot depend on directly calling the kernel due to changing syscalls. Reactos this could be different. Note in first NT design ntdll.dll was outside the win32k subsystem.
Can you please clarify? Isnt ntdll.dll outside win32k even now? win32k.sys is loaded after ntdll.dll.
oiaohm wrote: Nixer there are basically no true linux style Native only need kernel applications other than parts that come with windows even then that number is limited. Changing kernel interfaces have seen to that. Any part doing native system calls in windows is basically not transferable.
They rely on native APIs provided by ntdll.dll. Otherwise native applications such as autochk.exe, autoconv.exe, autofmt.exe or anti-virus software (avast for example) would not be transferable.
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