The correct path to take - and stuff that is missing

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andrewweb
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The correct path to take - and stuff that is missing

Post by andrewweb »

Vista is NOT important yet. Nor is vienna(codename for the next version of windows).

What we need is to try and make ReactOS 50% compatible(or better) with Windows XP Home and Profesional, and Windows Server 2003. (64-bit is not important yet, so I didn't mention pro x64 edition).
Why?
Because until ReactOS is at least 75% compatible in software terms, and 50% compatible in driver terms, vista and 64-bit make no sense. After all, there is a lot more xp compatible software and drivers than there is vista compatible, so why make it vista compatible when xp compatibility isn't finished yet!

Vista support can come in tiny bits at a time, but only in tiny bits.

I did say 64-bit is not important just now, but it will be soon. To my knowledge, there isn't a 64-bit version of reactos. Once we get 64-bit reactos, that will be good, but vista should not come yet. If we don't do 64-bit soon, we may get to the stage where it is too late to add it. COMMUNITY AND DEVELOPERS: Don't forget 64-bit!

Oh, and feel free to post anything you think is missing that the developers might not think of.

Z98
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Post by Z98 »

If you want us to port to x64, bug the people that make our tools to fix their x64 builders/linkers/etc.

silverblade
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Post by silverblade »

Some aspects of Vista are nice, such as the volume control and audio system in general (my speciality area! :lol: )

I suspect this could be implemented without making ReactOS too Vista-ish.

In fact, given that each Windows release builds on top of the previous, it's probably possible to implement the Vista architecture without having any of the GUI etc.

Most likely older drivers don't work partly for deliberate reasons (eg: DRM compliance) but that's just me guessing.

In any case, XP is a good target.
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Ged
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Re: The correct path to take - and stuff that is missing

Post by Ged »

andrewweb wrote:Vista is NOT important yet. Nor is vienna(codename for the next version of windows).
you couldn't be more wrong.

Nmn
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Post by Nmn »

When your chasing a moving target, you want to aim for the next thing, not the previous thing... By not chasing Vista or its predecessors (If Microsoft releases betas it would be more possible to stay up to date) ReactOS will be doomed to "last generation" APIs and sometimes technology.
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FlyingIsFun1217
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Post by FlyingIsFun1217 »

I love to see all of these people supporting Vista. It's so funny!

Right now, the developers are taking a great path in development. Microsofts Windows series just kinda builds off of the previous release, so by targeting older releases, they can learn the basics easier, and still get what they need to out of it.

As far as Vista (and the next Windows, for that matter), businesses, and even Government Agencies, have been saying NOT to use it for various reasons. Which is funny, since they use Windows almost exclusively at these places.

And it's kinda hard to say the next windows is important, unless your one of it's developers. How can we even know it's important? IT'S NOT EVEN OUT!

FlyingIsFun1217

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm »

Let take a different point of view. Number one Reactos is not Windows.

Reactos goal is to build a better version of Windows. Does this mean we will take tech from where ever suits. Yep it does. All versions of NT OS releated tech is up for grabs. That the tech comes from Vista or Vienna its not important. Only thing that is important is that its the best for the users of Reactos.

Nmn targeting the next thing before its stable is not good either. Or Reactos would be chasing the likes of WinFS most likely will never exist now.

If vista has done something great no reason not to use it.

One good variation if it can be done is Reactos 64 bit being able to use 32 bit drivers. Vista will not want because MS Wants no DRM breaking drivers. Of course 64 bit mode needs 64 bit compliers.

Reactos does not have this limitation of MS goals. Reactos has limitations of resources on offer.

andrewweb
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Post by andrewweb »

silverblade wrote:Some aspects of Vista are nice, such as the volume control and audio system in general (my speciality area! :lol: )

I suspect this could be implemented without making ReactOS too Vista-ish.

In fact, given that each Windows release builds on top of the previous, it's probably possible to implement the Vista architecture without having any of the GUI etc.

Most likely older drivers don't work partly for deliberate reasons (eg: DRM compliance) but that's just me guessing.

In any case, XP is a good target.
Yes, but there will be a few issues with this, but I agree.
The one issue i can think of is that, when uxtheme support is fixed, will reactos accept vista or xp themes(It might not be possible to accept both)

andrewweb
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Post by andrewweb »

Nmn wrote:When your chasing a moving target, you want to aim for the next thing, not the previous thing... By not chasing Vista or its predecessors (If Microsoft releases betas it would be more possible to stay up to date) ReactOS will be doomed to "last generation" APIs and sometimes technology.
I know what you meen. What I meen is, we should try not to put too much vista compatibility in before we have reasonable xp compatibility!
(But we must move on at some point!!!!)

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm »

andrewweb please understand Ros is not targeted at XP at moment. Its targeted at 2003 most places. In React X its targeted at 2000 design. Windows 2000 design of Direct X is more stable than the XP one since it cannot crash kernel. Yes its slightly slower.

Some of the vista stuff is 1 to 1 mappings. Functions like that there are no reason not to have them now.

Reactos is aiming at the best of Windows. So Vista will be examined for expected reasons. Long term planing internal core. Cherry picking Windows. Now of there is something useful in the Vista design it will be Cherry picked too.

forart
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Re: The correct path to take - and stuff that is missing

Post by forart »

Ged wrote:
andrewweb wrote:Vista is NOT important yet. Nor is vienna(codename for the next version of windows).
you couldn't be more wrong.
I barelly agree: seems that people is not moving in droves to Vista...
»Forward Agency NPO
In progress we (always) trust.

Ged
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Re: The correct path to take - and stuff that is missing

Post by Ged »

forart wrote:
Ged wrote:
andrewweb wrote:Vista is NOT important yet. Nor is vienna(codename for the next version of windows).
you couldn't be more wrong.
I barelly agree: seems that people is not moving in droves to Vista...
It doesn't really matter what some random guy says. There are a million and one articles about Vista, you've just linked to yet another one.
What matters is that Vista is here and it's starting to take market share away from XP. Rather than listen to the ramblings of some insignificant journalist, it's better to look at the actual market share.

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5

You can see from the link that XP is dropping and Vista is rising and picking up speed. Once SP1 is out, I expect that rise to increase even more.

It's just as easy to implement a Vista API as it is an XP API, we are going to need these API's at some point and if our devs enjoy adding Vista API's then it only benefits everyone.
Last edited by Ged on Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FlyingIsFun1217
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Post by FlyingIsFun1217 »

To me, that increase is because of people who don't fully utilize what their computer can do, and by that, I mean people like the elderly or undereducated (on computers), where they go in to their local computer store, and get a new computer. Having Vista installed on almost 100% of new computers will make it take a market share.

But then again, just because it comes default doesn't mean that it has gained that share because people like it. It just means that people are, the way I see it, being conned into this new product.

Personally, All I have heard from friends, and what I've done myself is found some old XP CD's for my Windows partition. As a C++ coder, there was just no way I was going to work in Vista.

Again I'll say, the goal that the ReactOS Devs are taking is a good one that will get the job accomplished.

FlyingIsFun1217

Ged
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Post by Ged »

FlyingIsFun1217 wrote:To me, that increase is because of people who don't fully utilize what their computer can do, and by that, I mean people like the elderly or undereducated (on computers), where they go in to their local computer store, and get a new computer.
What difference does it make as to how it's taking market share, the fact is, vista is here and people are adopting it.
As a C++ coder, there was just no way I was going to work in Vista.
Now you're just making yourself look silly, that makes no sense at all.

GreatLord
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Post by GreatLord »

I dislike and like vista in many area.
But I think we will change target next year from windows server 2003 to windows server 2008

it will have all vista api and more bugfix and allot more new api that vista have.

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