A New Hope - KDE 4 multiplatform

Here you can discuss ReactOS related topics.

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kevintrooper
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Post by kevintrooper » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:57 am

its not released yet!

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:59 am

Currently Source only kde 4. Beta1 on July 25 2007 if timeline stays on track binaries get released. Just jumping gun a little unless you want to build it yourself.

Yes Z98 kde 4 information is hard to find. Its KDE standard operation. Digging in kde wiki is required and to make heads or tails of it understanding how kde is assembled is required. Next version features not clearly stated in a simple to find location incase they are forced to delay something. Ie Hope no one notices and then call it a feature upgrade in the .1 and .2.

There is only one point of Linux shared code I ever found in ROS. Was the current NTFS driver. It is currently being worked on being replaced.

Only main reason I have for bundling kde is fully function replacements to Outlook. Problem is add kontact to reactos most if not all of the parts of kde that the windows manager depends on will be there.

KDE 4 is not just a shell. Its a API set.

Carlo Bramix
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Post by Carlo Bramix » Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:09 am

I think that some replies written here are a bit confusing.
ReactOS doesn't use parts of linux, unless in the place where it's declared.
For the Wine specific case, I think we cannot say that ReactOS shares sources with linux.
Instead, ReactOS and linux use some source code written by the Wine group, under the respect of its license.

Sincerely,

Carlo Bramini.

EDIT: mistake at typing...
Last edited by Carlo Bramix on Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

.aart3k
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Post by .aart3k » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:35 am

My state: I seriously DO NOT want ROS to incorporate KDE in base system (btw i think that KDE is more user friendly at all).
Like someone earlier mentioned when ROS gives good kernel + Win32 subsystem then we can make KDE as first desktop env, but as 3rd party distro.
When KDE gets place in our base then more people will think that we are based on linux, show them our kernel!

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:32 am

If people are using looking like Linux as a reason not to include something. This is wrong.

Linux/Unix/BSD vs each other did this with there Windows managers. The mistake is they all ended up with weaker desktops. No focus of good features. Learn from history it basically crippled the Linux desktops development.

There are a few reasons for and against including KDE 4 by default in tech reasons.
Against
  • Memory heavy.
    Will make default .iso larger
    Not exactly like windows theme system may or may not match up
For
  • Large Numbers of good default applications
    Support for freedesktop.org
    Better special effects sooner.
    Allows companies to use one desktop interface for all machines ROS Windows Linux Mac....
Explanation why freedesktop.org is important. KDE 4 applications it is optional for them to add self to the normal windows start menu. Yes optional. To access them simply you will have to use the kde windows manager. KDE 4 is going after market with a form of vendor lockin using a standard.

Also freedesktop.org replacement to .lnk files for menu entries provide a lot more flexibility ie <name>.desktop files under linux. Name and description of program can change when OS changes current active language setting. Multi language areas of the world Linux rates well because of the feature the standard provides windows rates poorly because its .lnk usage in start menu were not built with multi language in mind. You must use the file name in windows for the start menu entry name displayed to user.

Could ROS Explorer be retro fitted to support freedesktop menu system. Yes it could. It is also timeline. October 2007 KDE 4 will land if nothing goes wrong. Will there be enough time to retro fit it.

Note lightstep and the like are not providing advantage. They are not providing like 10000+ more applications to the Reactos platform for users to use.

Carlo Bramix Not really Wine release windows .dlls for testing compatibility. I wish people would stop saying that wine is Linux. Linux kernel has just been prepared to provide the features they need. So wine does not count. Most places this is what reactos appears to use. There is some source code in common between Linux and Reactos. Just like there is some source code in common between Windows XP and old versions(really old) BSD Linux and Unix. Windows XP TCP/IP stack in XP is a old defective version of BSD TCP/IP stack that every OS on earth used at one point. All other OS's stopped using it in 1998 and upgraded to the newer version.

There is no black and white to OS development. Reactos is Windows NT design this is not a Linux/Unix/BSD... design if it contains Linux pieces in places because they fitted at the time so be it. As well since its fine for Microsoft to use parts from other OS's I don't see why people have problems with Reactos doing the same if it fits.

GreatLord
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Post by GreatLord » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:25 pm

Hi

KDE will not include in standard install of reactos
so do not worry about that,

What we will maybe do in futer if it comes to windows we will offer it as addons for d/l in our d/l manger.

Ged
Developer
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Post by Ged » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:47 pm

what is everyone refering to when they talk about KDE, the apps or the desktop manager?

I've seen various people mention a replacement for explorer, but as far as I know it's only apps which will be available on Win32, not the whole desktop

GreatLord
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Post by GreatLord » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:00 pm

Ged
KDE are working on protring everthing to windows.
They have been talking and working on this many year now.

Yes I like KDE desktop and windows manger, and hope it comes to windows, but it is not a thing I want see in reactos as defualt shell
for many reason. Best solvtions is but it in our d/l manger and let people self decide d/l it or not

kevintrooper
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Post by kevintrooper » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:20 pm

Someone could also create a style for kde- the ros style, like this one http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1499

but with ros stuff not windows! duh

meg112
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Post by meg112 » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:13 pm

@ GreatLord

my idea wasn't to take KDE as default shell, but a shell replacement for this period. developers could work better on framework, ros may be more stable (I hope 0.3.3 will be better). After this , it's possible to develop a dedicated shell

Haos
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Post by Haos » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:30 pm

kevintrooper wrote:Someone could also create a style for kde- the ros style, like this one http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1499

but with ros stuff not windows! duh
Who is gonna do it? What should be left behind for doing that?

Z98
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Post by Z98 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:01 am

meg112 wrote:@ GreatLord

my idea wasn't to take KDE as default shell, but a shell replacement for this period. developers could work better on framework, ros may be more stable (I hope 0.3.3 will be better). After this , it's possible to develop a dedicated shell
One problem. KDE wouldn't work with the current state of ROS anyways, and by the time we got enough of the shell DLLs worked out, we'd likely have our new shell online and ready to go, cause it too is failing because of missing implementation. And using KDE doesn't really advance the goal of running Windows applications.

Reacter
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Post by Reacter » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:29 am

Please. Don't make us 28k-and-locked-into-it-by-location users download more!!! KDE 4 can be installed on ROS, just like Windows. Until it's ready, just run LINE, a linux emulator for Windows, or put Linux in Qemu / VMWare / VPC. Same results: Linux GUI + Win32. Live long, KDE, but keep to Linux. My $0.02.
More ReactOS, please!

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:32 pm

Reactor you are out of touch the line project has been dead for 7 years.

colinux and releated tech is the current methods under research.

KDE was not build for Linux. KDE was limited in spreed due to QT lib there core graphical lib being closed source on win32 and Mac OS so only a limtied number of developers could work on those platforms. Simple case of lack or resources. At $5000 USD a programmer for a QT license quite understandable. There was a cygwin port kde 3 port. As with everything done with cygwin it was slow.

KDE is now living up to its long term objectives. Run everywhere. Its going to be a bit hard for a few people to get use to difference between platforms is ending.

Please note Adobe products also use the QT graphics lib KDE 4 depends on.

I was thinking about 28k when I said standard ros explorer should look at supporting freedeskop menu system that KDE 4 uses so if you want to use some other KDE app that does not add a normal Windows Menu entry you can use it without having to use the heavier windows manager or download kde window manager to do it.

InFeRnODeMoN
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Post by InFeRnODeMoN » Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:11 pm

kevintrooper wrote:KDE? that will make ROS feel unoriginal!
And as BOT_ev said, very unnatural. It's a bad idea to make a Win32 clone with a Qt4 shell and utilities. So all KDE 4 whiners should install it by themselves.

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