SVN - Belgian keyboard - Dutch - NOT A GOOD IDEA!

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michael79

SVN - Belgian keyboard - Dutch - NOT A GOOD IDEA!

Post by michael79 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:36 pm

Hi,

I'm a belgian ReactOS user. I'm afraid that changing the
ReactOS language to Dutch when choosing the belgian
keyboard IS NOT A GOOD IDEA!

For your information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium

"Belgium is linguistically divided"
"This linguistic diversity often leads to political and cultural conflict..."

Please leave the system in english when selecting a belgian
keyboard or provide Belgian Ducth and Belgian French variants.

Thanks (ouf!)

Michael

woutervh
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Re: SVN - Belgian keyboard - Dutch - NOT A GOOD IDEA!

Post by woutervh » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:42 pm

michael79 wrote:Hi,

I'm a belgian ReactOS user. I'm afraid that changing the
ReactOS language to Dutch when choosing the belgian
keyboard IS NOT A GOOD IDEA!

For your information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium

"Belgium is linguistically divided"
"This linguistic diversity often leads to political and cultural conflict..."

Please leave the system in english when selecting a belgian
keyboard or provide Belgian Ducth and Belgian French variants.

Thanks (ouf!)

Michael
Hm, do they already have pc's in Wallonie then? :twisted:

But: good point :-)
I'm for the choice between Belgium (Vlaanderen) and Belgium (Wallonie)

Edit: but what to do with the German part then? Aaaaaarh, Belgium 8)

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Post by Haos » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:22 pm

As far as Wikipedia is concerned, there are three languages in Belgium: Dutch, French and German. Are there any differences between them? In other words: is Belgian dutch the same as in Netherlands? What about Belgian french and French one?

I just would like to know if this is a matter of naming or also of differences in meaning, letters used etc.

Michael: I think you should visit irc channel someday and speak with the developpers. It would be also good if you or someone as well oriented as you guys, cooperated with developpers and submit necessary changes.

We are here not to promote one region of Belgium after another, but you must not expect the Dev team to know all those sensitive regional issues.

woutervh
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Location: Belgium

Post by woutervh » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:10 am

Haos wrote:As far as Wikipedia is concerned, there are three languages in Belgium: Dutch, French and German. Are there any differences between them? In other words: is Belgian dutch the same as in Netherlands? What about Belgian french and French one?
Nope, no major differences. French and Dutch are the major languages. When you hear it, there's a huge difference between Belgian Dutch and Dutch from the Netherlands, but there's no written difference. As far as I know (I'm flemmish, so Dutch part), there are few differences between Belgian french and France french (written numbers etc, but I assume Michael is from the french part, so he would know).
The german part is just a little region. I think it's the same as german in germany

grtz

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Post by bavo » Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:38 am

woutervh wrote:
Haos wrote:As far as Wikipedia is concerned, there are three languages in Belgium: Dutch, French and German. Are there any differences between them? In other words: is Belgian dutch the same as in Netherlands? What about Belgian french and French one?
Nope, no major differences. French and Dutch are the major languages. When you hear it, there's a huge difference between Belgian Dutch and Dutch from the Netherlands, but there's no written difference. As far as I know (I'm flemmish, so Dutch part), there are few differences between Belgian french and France french (written numbers etc, but I assume Michael is from the french part, so he would know).
The german part is just a little region. I think it's the same as german in germany

grtz
Flemish and Dutch are a bit like UK English and US English, probably even less different. There's to little difference and to little people speaking it to worry about the differences imho.
I guess that the same is true for Belgian French and the French from France.

Considering the topic I wouldn't assume that a certain language is spoken in Belgium (and probably a few other countries like Switzerland), i think the most common languages here are Dutch, French and English. There are very few German speaking people here

Heis Spiter
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Post by Heis Spiter » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:08 pm

Well, when I've done this patch it was to enable setup in local languages. And to set language of setup, I had only system CLSID based on keyboard layout. So that's more a "hack" than a feature.
And if I didn't have exams, I should be working on it (to improve language selection, and to remove this hack).
Last edited by Heis Spiter on Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pierre Schweitzer (aka Heis Spiter)
ReactOS kernel developer.
ReactOS systems administrator.

mf
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Post by mf » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:32 pm

There's subtle differences in vocabulary, like "trots" is "fier" in flemish, just like "bonnet" is "hood" in american. You should be able to write an automated translator that takes such words and changes them to their flemish variant, so that when a module has been translated to dutch, it automatically gets translated to flemish as well.
It compiles, let's ship it!

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Post by Dr. Fred » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:08 pm

mf wrote:There's subtle differences in vocabulary, like "trots" is "fier" in flemish, just like "bonnet" is "hood" in american. You should be able to write an automated translator that takes such words and changes them to their flemish variant, so that when a module has been translated to dutch, it automatically gets translated to flemish as well.
I think that frik85 set up a different sub-language for Austrian German although I think that the only significant difference is that they have different names for January and February.
However are there even any relevant differences between Flemish and Dutch Dutch ?
Where do you want ReactOS to go today ?

woutervh
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Post by woutervh » Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:14 pm

mf wrote:There's subtle differences in vocabulary, like "trots" is "fier" in flemish, just like "bonnet" is "hood" in american. You should be able to write an automated translator that takes such words and changes them to their flemish variant, so that when a module has been translated to dutch, it automatically gets translated to flemish as well.
Hm, I think that's not really worth the efford... We use them both, "trots" and "fier". Our reading language is the same. Only the spoken language is different. We don't use words lik "klerelijer" or "hartstikkie". But those are unofficial words that nobody writes down...


grtz

michael79

What the hell...

Post by michael79 » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:38 pm

...are you all talking about? We are not talking about differences
between Dutch and Flemish here.

What I pointed is that choosing the BELGIAN keyboard
layout turns ReactOS UI language into DUTCH or Flemish
(I don't know which one and I don't care).

Selecting a belgian keyboard on Microsoft Windows doesn't
make Windows speek Dutch!

I hope this will be set back to english in next release or SVN.

PLEASE...

Haos
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Post by Haos » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:47 am

As far as i see here, the best thing would be to include two belgian subversions - one french-alike and other - dutch-alike.

Would it sort out this problem?

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Post by Z98 » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:02 am

Actually, I think all of you guys are confusing localization and keyboard layout. In Windows, keyboard layout is independent of which locale you select. So you're saying that the only way that you have to switch keyboard layout is to change the locale as well? If that's the case, then we need to figure out whether switching just the keyboard is disabled or hidden or whether we don't have a way to switch just the keyboard. Cause you should be able to switch keyboards without changing the locale.

hto
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Post by hto » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:05 am

What I pointed is that choosing the BELGIAN keyboard
layout turns ReactOS UI language into DUTCH or Flemish
(I don't know which one and I don't care).

Selecting a belgian keyboard on Microsoft Windows doesn't
make Windows speek Dutch!

I hope this will be set back to english in next release or SVN.

PLEASE...
Well, now it is called "Dutch (Belgium)" and not "Belgian". Is this change enough?

woutervh
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:24 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by woutervh » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:20 am

hto wrote:
What I pointed is that choosing the BELGIAN keyboard
layout turns ReactOS UI language into DUTCH or Flemish
(I don't know which one and I don't care).

Selecting a belgian keyboard on Microsoft Windows doesn't
make Windows speek Dutch!

I hope this will be set back to english in next release or SVN.

PLEASE...
Well, now it is called "Dutch (Belgium)" and not "Belgian". Is this change enough?
Are we talking about the keyboard now? And is the UI language connected in any way on the keyboardselection?
If yes, then I would propose: Belgium (Dutch) and Belgium (French) in stead of the opposite way. So we can tell the keyboard is a Belgian one, but our language is...

hto
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Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:43 pm

Post by hto » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:45 pm

I just added "French (Belgium)" variant.
If yes, then I would propose: Belgium (Dutch) and Belgium (French) in stead of the opposite way. So we can tell the keyboard is a Belgian one, but our language is...
Maybe I will change it next time...

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