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WARNING: is MS-Novell going to stop us ?
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:07 am
[url=http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/758004/000095013407012375/f26782exv10w35.htm]MICROSOFT – NOVELL
PATENT COOPERATION AGREEMENT[/url] wrote:
1.1 “Covered Products” of a Party means all products and services sold, licensed, supplied, distributed or otherwise made available by such Party except for Foundry Products, Clone Products and Other Excluded Products (collectively, “Excluded Products”).
1.7 “Clone Product” means a product (or major component thereof) of a Party that has the same or substantially the same features and functionality as a then-existing product (or major component thereof) of the other Party (“Prior Product”) and that (a) has the same or substantially the same user interface, or (b) implements all or substantially all of the Application Programming Interfaces of the Prior Product. Those portions of a product that are otherwise licensed to one Party from the other Party, or that are compliant with a specification of a standards organization as to which the other Party has consented to the use of its Patents therefor, shall not be considered in determining whether the product is a Clone Product.
(i) The Parties agree that products sold, licensed, supplied, distributed or otherwise made available by a Party for Revenue before the Effective Date (“Existing Products”) will not be deemed Clone Products. For purposes of clarification, the parties acknowledge that any features and functionality of such Existing Products (“Existing Product Functionality”) may be considered in determining whether a new product (or major component thereof) meets the requirements set forth in the first paragraph of this definition, provided that, even if a new product (or major component thereof) meets such requirements, only those Patents covering inventions in new features and functionality in such Clone Product may be asserted against such Clone Product, and only with regard to Clone Product Functionality. For purposes of this subsection (i), “Clone Product Functionality” means features or functionality (other than Existing Product Functionality) that add to meeting the requirements set forth in the first paragraph of this definition.
(ii) Notwithstanding subsection (i) above, Wine, OpenXchange, StarOffice and OpenOffice are not subject to such subsection (i), however, the exclusion of such products from such subsection (i) is without implication as to (and shall not affect the determination of) whether such products (or any features or functionality thereof) are Clone Products. Further, the Parties agree that (A) no inference shall be drawn from the reference to the above products in this subsection as to whether such products are Clone Products and (B) this subsection shall not be admitted or referred to in evidence in any dispute regarding an evaluation of whether any of the products referred to in this subsection is a Clone Product.
As I already expressed many times
the cloning politic is not that great, to me.
Again, we could build a better win-compatible OS, not just cloning it.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 9:22 am
Come on... this is a patent cooperation agreement between Microsoft and Novell, besides that, it is the goal of the project not to clone the OS but to improve it where possible.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:26 pm
Again, we could build a better win-compatible OS, not just cloning it.
It is not possible to make compatible without “cloning,” since it would have substantially the same features, functionality, user interface and APIs.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:50 pm
gabrielilardi wrote: it is the goal of the project not to clone the OS but to improve it where possible.
Just to reiterate what hto said, the goal of the project is indeed to clone it.
Improvements will be made where possible, but this is more from a perspective of dropping things that aren't needed. Everything we are including is pretty much a clone of the NT counterpart.
It would be naive of us to think we can improve on the core components which have been designed by some of the worlds best software engineers, especially considering they're on their 7th major release of the design.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:07 pm
Sorry, what I wanted to say was: "not just" to clone it but...
Anyway it's clearly impossible to make ReactOS compatible with Windows without "cloning" it.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:32 pm
I don't see where the agreement between MS and novell includes anything reactos, forart.. ROS has nothing to do with linux or that patents agreement for that matter
if you read the whole thing, they refer to clones product when they say that Suse can't include things like wine (and openoffice, and others)... but besides the grammatical error in "MS-Novell is going to stopping us..." that yellow journalism doesn't help the project at all
and besides, you can't improve on something you don't have... guess that after ROS is "complete" it could be improved... but how can you do it when it isn't even stable yet?
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:29 pm
Anyway, this mention patents... last time I checked there were no software patents in Europe so, what's the problem?
In the worst case, U.S. people (or from any country affected by the cancer of software patents) that want to use ReactOS "should not" download nor install it, as advertised by a disclaimer on the downloads page. If they still want to use it, it's at their own "risk".
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 1:30 am
The most tricky part of thist deal is that it turns Microsoft into SUSE distributor, vide those coupons they aquired from Novell. Why is this so important? As a linux distributor, Microsoft falls under GPL, as soon as anyone with that coupon will change it to a Novell product licensed with GPLv3. This will invalidate all Ms patents (or rather make them publicly available).
Now, we know that Ms has all the expensive lawyers they need... but guess who knows gpl better - its authors or Ms?
Sorry for any errors as i`m trying to recall the whole thing from memory:)
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:06 am
I am from the U.S. and I can still say, "who cares?" Free speech in the U.S. is still exercised, and software is no different. No Gates is going to stop me downloading a file, even if I have to hide the USB drive its on. Some of us here from the U.S. might know some loopholes Microsoft left in the EULA ... I no claim them, I no want them fixed ...
Limite Poll Choses!
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:41 pm
I think there should be more to the choses for the poll. It should also include 'who cares' or 'does not affect me or ROS.
I did not choose either of the choses. 8)
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:43 pm
This is bad timing for MS, as a US supreme court judge has recently condemned the US patent system for being too lax with what passes for consideration.
This development could invalidate a lot of their patents...
And there is the fact that IBM and other companies with stakes in FOSS have a collection of Patents from the FOSS community which they could stand up next to MS's product and lookie lookie they're similar! Cross licensing anyone...?
The lawyers will have a field day, the users/developers/consumers will not...
Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 5:31 pm
nah, that FOSS and MS patents war wont happen... MS has already expressed that they are not interest on filling up demands to OSS.... they just wanted to make people fear OSS and stay on windows
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:16 am
I LOVE REACTOS!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:48 am
gabrielilardi wrote:Come on... this is a patent cooperation agreement between Microsoft and Novell, besides that, it is the goal of the project not to clone the OS but to improve it where possible.
i never got that impression. they seem to copy the way microsoft implements everything. from user folders (which MS has changed a couple of times) to the way they plan to theme the interface. i think that reactOS is walking a fine line with possible trouble with Microsoft. however, i do think that they would be protected simply because they haven't taken anything directly from MS (like MS didn't steal the UI from Xerox
Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:08 am
Floyd: besides stability, our second main goal is compatibility. Certain names/paths/keys are hardcoded in Windows NT, thus apps/drivers will expect those. This limits number of things that we could possibly change. Compatibilty itself is an important reason to stick closely to Windows. At least for now...