compiler and IDE in base install (Why Johnny can't code)

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RODX
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Post by RODX »

well why not give little johnny somthing easier to work with ?, like this http://www.justbasic.com/.

that way they will be able to learn basic and later if they upgrade to Liberty basic 4.04 or Liberty Basic 5.0 (cross platform Linux,Mac, windows) then they can learn about API calls and such but without getting scared to death via C++ complexities. and if they are sill in to programming after that they will have an easier time going to another lang like C++ or PHP, Python, Ruby ect.

just a thought.

P.S. I am including a link to the Liberty Basic forums where you can find info on LB 4.03 and the up coming 4.04 update as well as the Development Status for LB 5.0 cross platform Basic for Windows Mac and Linux users as well as Run Basic for Web Interfaces and such.

the Link is http://libertybasic.conforums.com/index.cgi

Scroll down to find LB 5. Development Sub Forum.

Rodx

Haos
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Post by Haos »

Johny cant code, because in general, he does not know any computer language, not because there are no coding tools included. There are countless ways. more or less legal (depending on country) to get any tool or package you can dream of. If you (thread`s author) wish to promote coding, you should be lobbying for including high quality, different stages coding tutorials on as many programming languages as it`s possible. When Johny will get interested in coding, rest will be easy (more/less).

RODX
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Post by RODX »

Hello Haos :)

No, I am not this threads Author I was merely suggesting an alternative Basic Language that would be easy to use for newbie programmer that are unfamiliar with C,C++,Java,Perl because I thought that the thread's Author was asking about what would be good to include with ROS in the Base install I suggested the program "Just Basic 1.0" Because it is the following Features:

1. it is free (the Author will never ask for money ever)

2. it includes a Form Designer

3. has an IDE with syntax Hi-Lighter

4. small File size (3.8 Megs)

5. Easy to use

6. comes with a ton of Example code for what most people would want to do

7. supports DOT syntax on Variables (not really that important but useful)

8. Cost for Just Basic : FREE try getting any Visual Basic package for that that is not stripped down in features.

9. can be used to compile stand alone programs.

and by following the links I provided in my post at the top of this page, you can by Liberty Basic 4.03 which is a more advanced version of the program allowing more things like using DLL's, API Calls and lots more.

heck the full version of Liberty Basic 4.03 is just $29.99 meaning you can compile programs for distribution or you can just use the trail program without compiling for as long as you would like for free.

lets face it many people cannot just jump in to C or C++ programming with any amount of success without a good grounding in programming practice and the easiest way to get that good grounding is still using good old Basic.

so that is why little Johnny could use Just Basic first then move on to more advanced stuff later on.

hope I have Cleared up any confusion (and not created more by doing so) :)

RODX

Z98
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Post by Z98 »

Good intentions aside, I feel that I need to inject an amount of realism in here. The developers are not likely to include a compiler or IDE of any sort with the baseline ReactOS, simply because they believe that it should be up to the user to decide what to install on their operating system. They're not going to try and push an agenda by only including specific things with the OS.

dreams
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Post by dreams »

We can already put free software in Download!. Software like FreeBasic or Just Basic etc.

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm »

It a bit of a myth. That a person cannot start with C or C++.

I know a few people where they are the first lang they did learn was C. As well at lot of people start with javascript on webpages moved to java then c++. Then there are the others that start of in game scripts like unreal and move to C or C++ for enhanced functions. Kid cannot code is a little bit of a narrow point of view.

Cause is different. When I started coding game hacking was a sport. Then Schools baned games completely. There are other factors.

Basic is not the only start line. wxDev-CPP and Dev-CPP do have a minor tech problem. The IDE is not written in the lang users is using. So modifying is not that simple. Pascal written in. And coders using C and C++. Not a good thing. Person need to know two langs to improve it correctly.

Its the same logic why at some collages you have to learn either basic or pascal first. What is really a waste of time.

Please note one important thing no point mentioning commercial solutions.

I was personally was thinking of adding IDE to rosbe a form of a new developer enter point. To do that a list if requirements to pick something most people will not completely hate.

Reacter
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Post by Reacter »

RHIDE + DJGPP. I use that combination very efficiently. Of course, not many teens use ASM. But RHIDE/DJGPP is only .... 20 MB on my system. But it would definitely have to be in DOWNLOAD! .

P.S. My first language was ASM.
More ReactOS, please!

RODX
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Post by RODX »

@ oiaohm,

well kids starting in C or C++ first instead of Basic I know this does happen but I learned Basic first then moved on to 6502 Assembly and some Z-80 Assembly but I feel because I learned how to Program in Basic first that it made Assembly a lot easier, so I would figure that since most modern basics are object oriented anyways learning one would help with learning C++ and that is why I chose my line of reasoning for this post.

But i can see your line of reasoning as well and you make a valid point, I guess I am just too old School in my line of reasoning.:)

@Z98

your right of course that ReactOs should only ship with what it needs and nothing else, I keep thinking like a typical Linux user where my Distro Automaticly installs compilers and libs for me, but a link in the ReactOs Docs for alternative Programming Langs could not hurt and would satisfy ReactOs Devs wishes to not include anything but needed software for the OS.

RODX

Haos
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Post by Haos »

Again... i say to include books, tutorials, guides, not the tools itself. With knowledge, anyone can get tools he needs. The problem is to get the knowledge first. I do support Z98 policy in this matter. Docs have less size, more value, and in general are more effective than tools.

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm »

Both have value. Docs and Tools.

A clean and open survay of what people want in a IDE. Gives options of building, requests for features in existing IDE's. Please people list what you exactly want in a IDE. It might not be directly releated to ros but it will allow it to help around the edges.

RODX
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Post by RODX »

Well the only things I look for in an IDE are:

1. Syntax color coding or the ability to color syntax

2. integrated debugger (no matter what the lang, not required but nice to have)

3. syntax checker (not always possible, but nice)

4. small foot print (again not always possible but nice)

that is really all I look for myself, I know these exist but none are ever together as package most of the time. so to have one all in package would be rather nice to have.


RODX

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Jaix
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Are we talking RosDE

Post by Jaix »

I think you are talking about this:
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/R ... nvironment

This project has stalled because a key developer is absent right now, will someone else head the call?

jeremyk
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Post by jeremyk »

I agree that some forum of Interpreters should be included. One that you could just type in a simple program and run it and it will create simple games just like in the old days when they included QBASIC with the OS. it was fun and easy and every one who got a computer used it. I think it would be a good idea to include a BASIC version just to play with that is include with a help file with simple programs for every command like they had for the commodore. I think c/c++ would be for the hard core programmers which there going to want to use there own and not have one installed. So I think there should be only a simple fast easy to use compiler to be included that any one and there dog could run and use just for fun. I know you could use it in schools to teach kids and would not have to worry about the coast or installing or anything else.

I remember when I first got a IBM compatible computer and was hoping the BASIC Interpreter was on it and to find out it was not and then I had to research for hours being a beginner to figure out what I could use to do the same thing.
You could always put it as optional components just like Linux does and check it if you want to include it and if not don’t worry about it.

Then again if it is not included I could just include it and other open source programs that I want with my install. Then disro it to my friends and coworkers who want a free windows compatible OS.

So either way it would be all right but if it is already included then it would be easyer on me.

Z98
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Post by Z98 »

The closest thing to included programming/interpreter tools would be scripting support for the command line. The reason being we don't want to emulate Linux distros by providing bloated systems that include a whole crapload of programs that only some people want and others don't care about. If you won't exert the effort to install programs you want, we're not going to do it for you.

oiaohm
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Post by oiaohm »

vb script and javascript have to be included in time. For network compatablity. Lots of Microsoft networks use them for tasks.

It still does not change my question. What features people want in a IDE. RosDE does not have answers to what people want. Its one of the key features of starting coding a IDE. With a list of key features they can even be planed for Summer of code or requested from other projects.

Without information on required features even if RosDE does processed it could be really annoying due to lacking a key feature.

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