(maybe) ReactOS Media Player

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AcetoliNe
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Post by AcetoliNe » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:18 am

Picture this scenario:
Day 1: ros creates it's own hot sizzling media player that looks nothing like WMP (becuase it's a lot better) and is faster and more user-friendly. We don't include WMA/WMV support, because let's face it; it sucks.

Day 2: Users have to learn this new interface - but since it's windows-free they grudgingly comply.

Day 3: Users require a specific windows component that requires WMA support to run (internet music, for example...) ros redirects them to another media player that can do the job (but only 50% of the time).

Day 4: Another windows component is requested that absolutely needs WMP in order to run. No problem, ros devs create a workaround.

Day 5: Bugs come up. Compatibility issues are raised.

Day 6: ros is stuck.

Day 7: Users switch back to windows.

This is the scenario i'm afraid of. What I'm trying to say is that a WMP replacement could fix more problems than it could create, plus saving headaches for a lot of ros developers.

BTW, nice discussion going on in here. Keep exchanging ideas, that's the idea ;)
caveman LIKES chocolate.
we shall reinvent the wheel until it turns properly.

ScoTTie
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Post by ScoTTie » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:47 am

ConMan wrote:I also like and use Media Player Classic, but won'tt the microsoft media player run on ROS eventually? (not that it would be included just as an option)
Sure it will but no doubt the EULA wont permit it to be installed on anything but Windows (Like anyone cares anyway) and you cant ship it with ReactOS.

somebody
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Post by somebody » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:54 am

Also exist MPlayer project (http://www.mplayerhq.hu). There is win32 port.

Elledan
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Post by Elledan » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:43 am

ScoTTie wrote:
ConMan wrote:I also like and use Media Player Classic, but won'tt the microsoft media player run on ROS eventually? (not that it would be included just as an option)
Sure it will but no doubt the EULA wont permit it to be installed on anything but Windows (Like anyone cares anyway) and you cant ship it with ReactOS.
Besides, the last usable version of WMP was 6.4, and MPC really improves on this version (better codec support, built-in splitters, decoders, etc.).

If there's a good OSS alternative, we should use it.

Also, developing a media player from scratch would be sheer madness while existing (OSS) solutions exist. What features does, for example, MPC lack which are apparently so badly needed by ROS?

Wulf
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Post by Wulf » Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:56 am

I for one don't care in helping to make more popular braindead formats such
as WMA, WMV etc... Help popularize OGG, FLAC, SPEEX, THEORA, XviD instead. As for a default media player, as long as it's not as fat/slow and as difficult to use as Windows Media Player I think it could be fine. Probably a concept like Winamp would be cool. Although these days I prefer Amarok (check it out: http://amarok.kde.org). Also in my opinion, it's not a good idea to mix music and video playback into one app.

mf
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Post by mf » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:08 pm

I have some pretty funky ideas for a media player (audio/video handled by same process but with separate interfaces), but too excentric for ReactOS any day :).

loki1985
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Post by loki1985 » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:19 pm

folks, don't forget one thing: a media player is nice. videolan and MPC might work, but most other players i know depend on DirectShow and DS codecs. this would need to be implemented, too (at least DS itself). not just cause of players, but: most applications that play back AVI/MPG/WMx files use DS, especially games.

i think there could be some workaround (think of DS_VLC)....

and folks, lets stop the "i vote for" and "i think X is better" discussion. we are more than far away from a final, and at the current time there is absolutely no point in this....

ScoTTie
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Post by ScoTTie » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:32 pm

Elledan wrote:
ScoTTie wrote:
ConMan wrote:I also like and use Media Player Classic, but won'tt the microsoft media player run on ROS eventually? (not that it would be included just as an option)
Sure it will but no doubt the EULA wont permit it to be installed on anything but Windows (Like anyone cares anyway) and you cant ship it with ReactOS.
Besides, the last usable version of WMP was 6.4, and MPC really improves on this version (better codec support, built-in splitters, decoders, etc.).

If there's a good OSS alternative, we should use it.

Also, developing a media player from scratch would be sheer madness while existing (OSS) solutions exist. What features does, for example, MPC lack which are apparently so badly needed by ROS?
Yeah sorry i was talking about Windows Media Player not MPC. MPC would be ideal in this situation its near identicle in look and feel to the original player which wont alianate new users and its got all the needed features. WMA/WMV support will be needed (why wouldnt you want to have playback ? sure its not important, but people will want it.), but thats a codec problem not a media player one.

SwissCM
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Post by SwissCM » Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:28 pm

I think Media Player Classic is the rather obvious choice. Its an almost 1:1 match with Windows Media Player 6.4. It is completely self contained, but can still take external codecs.

VLC is a bit of a mess IMO. Although it is a pretty good media player, it is somewhat limited feature wise and has some rather nasty patent issues. Having all those codecs bundled in is a legal nightmare. Also, with MPC there is no reliance on updates, since it doesn't really need to ever be updated with new codec support.

Oh, and bashing WMV/WMA is rather harsh. They aren't exactly my codecs of choice, but there are certainly worse out there.

ffdshow supports WMV up to v8 I think, along with most other MPEG based codecs. Perhaps this could be bundled along with Reactos?

cuppm
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Post by cuppm » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:21 pm

Unless there's a specific licensing reason WMA and WMV codecs can't be included (even if they are clean slate versions), they need to be included.

Media Player Classic seems like the best choice. The default media player needs to be as simple and versitile in playback capabilities as possible. And if you are one that doesn't like MPC, do what you do with windows and install your media player of choice and reassociate the media files.

In terms of having both audio and video playback in the same app, it needs to be that way. The majority of Windows users don't want multiple media players for each different type, they want one that handles everything. So if they can use the same application for both, they would be much more comfortable.

In response to the "fork it" and "in house" calls, duplicate efforts moving in the same direction is pointless. If you want to work on a media player for ROS, get the source of the decided player (MPC anyone?), learn it, and help develop it. It could help to start forming partnerships between different OSS project teams, and cooperation is a good thing all around.

Elledan
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Post by Elledan » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:25 pm

SwissCM wrote: Oh, and bashing WMV/WMA is rather harsh. They aren't exactly my codecs of choice, but there are certainly worse out there.
Like Real (.rm)? ;)
ffdshow supports WMV up to v8 I think, along with most other MPEG based codecs. Perhaps this could be bundled along with Reactos?
I've been using ffdshow for a couple of years now (with WMP 6.4 and MPC), and it's definitely the most convenient way to play back video.
cuppm wrote:In terms of having both audio and video playback in the same app, it needs to be that way. The majority of Windows users don't want multiple media players for each different type, they want one that handles everything. So if they can use the same application for both, they would be much more comfortable.
I strongly disagree. Just look at WMP 7.x and up.

I use MPC for playing back video, and Winamp for audio. An audioplayer is allowed to look pretty, because you've got it open nearly all the time. A videoplayer should not be pretty, just efficient. The Core Player, WMP 7.x+ and similar rejects are examples of what happens when you don't follow this rule. These applications only get in the way, become bloated (skins!) and, dare I say this, have become what Real Player always was.

nodtveidt
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Post by nodtveidt » Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:00 am

Heyas, I'm new to this forum. Didn't even know about this project until today...yup, I live under a rock. :D Anyways, I agree that a media player coming with the system is absolutely critical. I have not yet tried out this OS but if it supports the compiler I personally use, then perhaps I can develop a media player for ReactOS; I have developed MMP's for several platforms in the past (several for MSDOS, one for Windows 3 and and three for Win32, one for Linux, one for the Hu6280 system, and was toying with one on old MacOS 7.5.3). If I am reading correctly though, sound isn't completely supported yet? If that's the case, then I will just sit tight and watch (I would offer some help on the subject but unfortunately I don't think there's much I can offer at that level) and then work on something solid.
Life is too short for bad pasta.

Stead
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Post by Stead » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:35 pm

Day 1: ros creates it's own hot sizzling media player that looks nothing like WMP (becuase it's a lot better) and is faster and more user-friendly. We don't include WMA/WMV support, because let's face it; it sucks.


personally i find wma an amazing format, better than all i've tried, except for OGG vorbis, but then no one uses that and WMP conviently doesn't have a plugin for it, although i think its opensource can't remember and i'm sure someone could make one

anyway.

doesn't winamp come bundled with a free wma codec from microsoft?, ca't remember if it does wmv too, they have a seperate installer that installs it when its finished set'ing'up if i rememeber correctly

an important feature in my opinion is to have codec downloads, or at least information on ware to get them from, this is an amazing feature of wmp i think.

that classic replica of media player, i must admit i quite like it, does it have a media control like the wmp 6.4? and isn't 7,8,9,10 just the 6.4 core with nice fancy graphics? as i thought it needed it to run

*edited* wrote a long post including some of my own opinions which don't belong here, and accidently clicked submit instead of preview to show off my handy work to myself! must learn not to do that :)

uniQ
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Post by uniQ » Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:51 am

WinAMP 2.91 on XP can play VMA and V files, or @least for me.

-Q
Coming on, coming up, let me help ROS and I'll be able to look @ a life well used.

Pentiumforever
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Post by Pentiumforever » Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:10 pm

i'm not sure but i think Winamp use the code that provide windows (You can found your windows Video/Audio Codecs in the device manager) everyone cann add a code and every program can use the codec - I hope this will be integrated in ReactOS (but when i so think it must be integrated because a lot of programms use it, but they should use a different control for that and not the device manager)

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